One thing that that really get's to me is theist who think they have the right to not be offended and all people who enable this behaviour.

I find it hard to find a theist who will have an open discussion about why they believe in a personal god at all or why they think their god is real and all the other ones aren't. Yesterday I remarked on the hypocritical nature of the followers of xtianity and was met with no argument as to why what I said was wrong but that it was rude. When I asked why it was considered rude I was told that I should have respect for peoples religion. I disagree, I'll respect your right to have religion, by all means believe whatever crackpot fairy tales you like  but if you are not willing to be offended and stand up for what you believe in then you need to take a serious look into why that is. 

Most of the theists I know don't argue because they do not even care weather or not their god exists, they go to church on Sunday and go about their lives as if they were Atheists. But I know there are theists out there who might care but are too afraid of being offended by talking to an evil non believer so they just tell you that you are rude.

Are people just being too polite or am i really too insensitive?

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Hey Ray,

I started a group called "Welcome all Adherents". You're invited.

- kk

That contention presumes that all atheists think alike.

If all Catholics thought alike, there would still be only the one Church. Your Church even has an Eastern and Western Orthodoxy, and then there are all of the subgroups, through and including all Protestants, including the whacky cults of Mormonism and Scientolgy - how many are they up to now, by last count?

there is a difference between Catholics and christians.  There is only one holy catholic church of which the pope is the head.  The eastern right is part of this church but protestants, mormons and especially scientologist fall under different denominations.

i don't mean to assert that all atheists think alike but by the same token the word atheist immediately implies disbelief in god.  I can see that many of you don't necessarily agree with that and i suppose it's your system not mine so who am i to tell you what you believe.  But by calling myself a christian, it means automatically that i believe there is a god.  A-Theist when broken down means NO- God, the prefix a means no.  

RE: "A-Theist when broken down means NO- God, the prefix a means no." - in English, possibly, but in Latin, which is the origin of the word, it means, as I have repeatedly tried telling you, "without." When you have translated all of Julius Caesar's letters, from his military campaign in France, back to the Roman Senate, as I have, come back and talk to me about the meaning of Latin words - they begin, "Omni est Gallia divide en tres partes --." Latin had no articles, "a," "an," or "the, " so be careful, it can get hinky.

You're trying to herd us into a corner, where we are forced to accept your contention that we, "believe," which implies a "faith," which frees you to say, "Well, since we both have a belief, it becomes a matter of faith in both cases" and I have continued to maintain, clearly to deaf ears, that no faith is involved, choosing not to fall into the trap you believe you have so cleverly set.

All of the Christian belief systems are the children and grandchildren of the - imo, unholy - Catholic Church, whose amassed wealth would reposition generations of the poor into self-sustaining lifestyles, yet resides (at least that which is not already in money-market accounts) in some vault somewhere, deep beneath the Vatican, locked up more tightly than Fort Knox or little 14-year old Mary's knees.

Which brings me to another point - did he even take her to dinner first? Maybe a movie? Flowers? Talk about a cheap date --

Speaking of faith, Ray, let me just throw out a couple of rhetorical questions, to which I do not expect an answer, but which, nevertheless, I would like you to consider.

How many churches use money that could potentially go to feed hungry children, to pay for insurance policies?

Did you know that the Popemobile has windows made of 3" bullet-proof glass?

"Oh ye of little faith, I never knew ye --"

sadly that is the only lable we got.. I think soon .... however. it will be called being normal ........(like organic food should be called normal sadly its not)....for example in the future i think it will be  like "hey are you normal" .. "or are yout faith based" ..thats how it will be soon... non faith belivers is a new term that thanks to you I will laabel myslef as... us non belivers are grwoing fast becuse facts and science and thinking logical matter and in an age of information .. its undeniable .. you are too smart for this.. your better then this.. i kno it

they simply do not have the knowledge of faith nor the reasoning

knowledge/science of faith =  theology

Theology is the study of religions and religious practices.  Mixing the word 'science' in there doesn't give credibility to any of the particular religions studied.  It's interesting that you mix knowledge, science, and faith as if they are synonymous.  I'm not sure if you're communicating in an unfamiliar language, or being intentionally dishonest.

Atheism not at all indifferent towards god, atheism is quite adamant that god does not exist.

Atheism makes no claim; it is simply that those making a claim have not presented evidence to back it up.  As many times as this has been explained to you, you're making it clearer that you're intentionally dishonest.

From a Priest recently: "Hey, little boy, wanna try some sacramental wine?"

Hey Ray,

I would like to say that as a Catholic, I agree with much of what you say in this post.  Maybe offended is not the best word to describe it, but as you say, Christians should be ready and willing to stand up for what they believe to be true and should not brush aside arguement as simply rude and therefore not worth their time and effort.

Well, that's good. I can approach this two ways. Read my proofs and debunk them. Alternatively, you can read a good "deconversion script" at this forum, where I walk through a deconversion. Of course it isn't all that realistic because its a blog which attracts hostile adherents who like to disrupt, but you can still get a good idea of how it works there.

Most atheists don't give a hoot about deconversion but I really think that is what you're seeking here. Why don't we start a conversation here where I'll invite Christians like yourself to a discussion of this? I think it would be awesome! Bring along your Christian friends ... as many as you can. I could start the thread right away but without true Christians in it it will just be singing to the choir. Can you help me round them up?

- kk

Recognize the offense taken as a weakness, and more importantly as a need. The sensitivity is a sign that something is broken or missing inside the person. To "witness" too that person - to be an Ambassador of Atheism - you need to see that where you may not have intended offense, you can certainly address and perhaps help the person at least bolster their own faith so that they can weather superficial insults to it. They will (eventually) recognize that a non-believer opened that door for them and become more curious.

It sounds as if that is what is occurring to our dear reader Sarah. Most posters at this forum are quite polite. Sarah is in a discovery phase and realizes we are not evil monsters that her background may have cast us as. The occasional flamings here typically occur when a fundamentalist seeking some sort of personal glory comes in with motive to "spread the truth"... i.e. blab their absurd nonsense with the idea that it will be a ground-shaking event. I know it very well - I grew up in the SDA church and that was an activity that was promoted among our congregation (it isn't official doctrine BTW...).

What is missing from our community is a physical and philosophical presence. Despite the rest of the nonsense that goes with it, Church is a great support network for a variety of basic human needs. The emotional well being derived from it, and the ability to get help during tough times is something that people don't associate with our community and that is unfortunate. Religion is like a product. Unfortunately it is a necessary product for most people - being adrift in a dangerous world is not a good thing. Even if your guiding principles are mostly hooey and non-sense they are better than nothing.

If we want to stop being marginalized we need to step up and try to make a difference in people's perception of us by giving them a better product; and we DO have a better product. We have a world view that is more in line with reality. We have knowledge of medicine and science that can produce true benefits, not simply a euphoric distraction. We understand and accept ourselves for what we really are, rather than some broken, craven, sin-baby. Why wouldn't people want to live without that fear?


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