After every major shooting, the gun control advocates can be counted on to ask "NOW can't you see the need for gun control?" But does gun control really make sense?

Would gun control have prevented this slaughter? I doubt it. Guns will continue to be available for the person determined to get one, and the kind of person who does something like the Colorado movie theater shooting would be determined.

The problem isn't the weapon, it's the intent, and there are plenty of other ways to kill. There are even plenty of ways to kill en masse. A bomb brought into the theater could have killed more as could an incendiary device. In other contexts, there's poisoning food or water.

Is the cause of gun violence really the availability of guns or is it the nature of the people who use them? Other countries have similar or greater rates of gun possession (I believe both Israel and Switzerland have higher rates), but they don't have nearly the rate of gun violence.

The difference in gun violence between Switzerland and the United States comes down to the difference between the Swiss people and Americans, and I don't see Americans changing in any fundamental way anytime soon.

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such as the shooter. to everyone's benefit in that theater, his ineptitude with clearing a jam or properly loading a crappy magazine (drum). probably saved lives in there. so if training were required and instruction on the use and operation of a long gun...this idiot would have been far more lethal. so lets thank ineptitude.

Didn't know he failed to clear a misfire from an extremely simple rifle (AR-15) or was using drums/taped mags at all (they virtually guarantee misfires), but those are some of those things that illuminates the futility of having guns.

I have some military training and if you fired a pistol/revolver and missed or caught the vest, I can squeeze off a couple of rounds using point and shoot (takes 100+ hours of obstacle course to learn proficiently) while you are resteadying and you will be dead. A "clicked" gun takes a few seconds at most to clear (takes a few hundred misfires to learn), changing the magazine takes 2-3 seconds (again takes a few hundred timed changes to learn), and a full disassemble takes around 35 seconds in the dark (200+ hours of training).

Also consider that it happened in a darkened theater where gas had been applied and people were panicking. Bringing another gun into that situation would not have decrease the casualty rate, especially since being hit by a full metal jacket 5.56 is less likely to be lethal than a hollow point .38 (which is twice as diametrically large and travels slower). Even with some appropriate training I doubt I would be able to make any positive difference if there and armed.

Most of all it is the chest pounding masochism that if only they had been there with their guns nothing like it could ever happen, which I find ludicrous and clearly dangerous since it is what seems to inform US weapons debates.

nothing you said has anything to do with my statement, besides stating a few "facts" that are entirely debatable. i was simply stating the gratitude that the shooter was just as inept. where the rest of your statement came from i will assume was addressing other comments. nothing i have said anywhere can be implied about gun control or mysterious dramatic reenactments where the good guys win....

i can rattle off random information not pertaining to either comment, like having 6 years combat experience on 3 continents. but again nothing to do with your or my comment. this seems to be a trend here, and with you.

huh? i wasnt disagreeing with him, kris. just something of a trend of unrelated and somewhat incorrect statements that arent even on topic to reply to my comment. if it were to comment in general fine. nothing was stated about anyone's position and any position being questioned/challenged. so what are you saying now since you jumped in? contradictions? where? and blatant?

As Kris noted below, I wasn't disagreeing, just adding to what you said. What I gathered from what you wrote is that if the killer had  training there would be a lot more people dead, seeing as he would have cleared the click in a few seconds, he would have chosen regular mags, and he would have changed them quicker. My addition to that would be if someone in the audience had had their own weapon the situation would probably not have been resolved.

Damn, that's what you call an arms race. 

Home invasions do happen. Violence happens on the street...muggings, hate attacks.

The police tend to arrive in time to take a report or wipe up the blood. Sometimes they catch the perps after the fact, but that's not much consolation.

Here, this should help you feel better...

An FBI statistic would be nice. Maybe I'll track one down later.

There is no question that stricter gun laws would reduce gun violence, but it would never eliminate it. People like the Aurora shooter will find a way to go through with their plans. That is what extremists do. The change has to be larger in scale and the laws have to be broader in scope. In the end society has to outgrow this kind of mentality and I fear we're a long way from that. 

It might reduce it some, but remember that most of the gun violence is is done by the same people who would get guns from the underworld anyway. It would mostly remove guns from the hands of the people who have legitimate uses for them.

The problem (assuming there is one) isn't American guns, it's the Americans themselves. That is, if you think there actually is a problem. Some might say that gun deaths are just the price of the freedom we have to keep and bear arms. All rights come at an expense of some sort. We could eliminate a lot of traffic deaths by banning private ownership of cars and going to a 100% public transit system, but the highway deaths are the cost of having the right to the private ownership of automobiles.

Here's a snippet from the BBC Radio 4 programme "More or Less", from today, talking about this issue.

Of all the comments I have read lately you make an excellent point by taking a broader view and comparing America to Switzerland. The underlying causes which give rise to the human violence of killing each other should be our focus not the tool of choice/convenience.


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