Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by 3equ3cp1fsw0n on July 18, 2011 at 2:42am

That's a hard one. Maybe you should point out to your mother that she seems to be the only one upset about the matter. That might make her think twice before judging you.

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Permalink Reply by Jackie on July 18, 2011 at 6:34pm

I will do that, thanks.  She is usually very open minded and understanding, which is why this was so hard for me.

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Permalink Reply by Hany on July 18, 2011 at 3:09am

I think you are taking it too serious.

go the to the baptism, it's not like you believe in it... 

go for fun.. you will enjoy seeing people praying and doing some weird spiritual acts... you don't have to make fun of them.. not even comment on it. it's going to make your friend happy and get your mother off your back :)

 

They have all the right to believe whatever they want.. the same right you have to deny the existence of gods.

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Permalink Reply by Jackie on July 18, 2011 at 6:36pm

Thanks!  I just felt like going would be hypocritical. Like a christian going to a mosque or something.  But you're right, I don't have to actively participate, not that I would anyway, LOL.

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Permalink Reply by pumpkin head on July 18, 2011 at 3:24am

if the one friend doesn't care, what's the problem?  if your mom understands she doesn't care, what's her problem?  ask your mom if she'd attend an orgy to be respectful and polite even if she didn't believe in it?  haha.

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Permalink Reply by Jackie on July 18, 2011 at 6:37pm

HAHAHA!  Problem with that one is my mom might actually want to do an orgy.  UGH, mental picture *shudder

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Permalink Reply by Philip Jackson Armstrong on July 18, 2011 at 7:32pm

 

 Could I by any chance meet your mother. I mean just to talk about her.... uh... about her point of view with this situation. Really... just talk:) 

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Permalink Reply by Ana Thema on July 18, 2011 at 9:40am

I would try to explain to her that there are more ways than one to show that you support a friend. Supporting their religious rites is one way. Spending time in the real world doing real things is another. I wouldn't mention which one is more conducive to the friendship, but maybe you will. ;)

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Permalink Reply by Jackie on July 18, 2011 at 6:48pm

Thanks Ana, this is one of my favorites!!!  So very true.

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Permalink Reply by Phil Tibbs on July 18, 2011 at 9:42am

I would personally go... here's why:

 

You aren't going to change anything by not going.  If anything, you are going to come off as judgmental if you abstain from going, even if that's not what you intend.  My experience is that people don't invite you to events because they want you to implicitly sanction them... If she knows you're an atheist and still invited you, then she probably wants you there because she likes you as a friend and wants you to experience a big event in her life. 

 

Going to a religious event (wedding, baptism, funeral) doesn't necessarily mean you support the actual activity itself -- it means that you are there to support your friend. Would you pass on a Hindu wedding because you didn't believe in reincarnation?  I really don't think it's disrespectful to attend an event that you don't 'believe' in, as long as you don't tell everyone there that you think it's a vehicle for brainwashing kids into Christianity.  ;)

 

You don't need to participate in prayers or pretend to be religious to be supportive.  I would just go, smile and be polite, and tell her that her daughter is beautiful.

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Permalink Reply by Nathan Hevenstone on July 18, 2011 at 12:11pm

I have been to a few baptisms (and first communions and so on) in my life (my mom's dad is an RCC Deacon). I myself was baptized and even got my first communion (I was also circumcised, had a Mikvah, and a Bar Mitzvah). Here's my thoughts:

 

I join you in your disdain for baptism. While I don't think it's fair to call a baby an atheist (one can't be either atheist or theist when one is blissfully unaware that god concepts even exist), I think it's less fair to call a baby a theist. Baptism, circumcision, first communion, bar/bat mitzvahs... these should all be up to an individual after they are old enough to make a decision as to whether or not they want to be religious, and what religion they wish to join. I will say that I do not know what age that should be, and I think 18 may be too high as I feel like I had a proper understanding of all this and could have made a decision by the time I was 13 had I wanted to (of course, I wasn't thinking about these things at 13... I was more interested in sports, girls, and music).

 

On the flipside, what is there to be gained by refusing to go? You are, I have to say, very lucky that your friend is so understanding. But that, I also have to say, is a rare event. My mom's family knows that I'm an atheist, and, except for her Dad (who's clergy, remember), they just don't care in general. But I know that if I refused to show up for a baptism or first communion or whatnot, it would hurt someone, and as outspoken as I am about my atheism, I try not to hurt people who I don't think deserve it.

 

That you have an understanding friend is incredible. Because of that, you are safe in, basically, ignoring your mom in this case. Her hurt is personal, even though she has no actual stake in it, so you don't have to worry about it. If anything, it shows a failing in her rather than you. So relax and let it pass is what I say. She'll get over it. She may or may not recognize that your friend just doesn't care, but that's her problem, not yours.

 

I would, however, say that, if your mom ever invites you to a baptism or something similar, I'd think a little more carefully about it, because, obviously, it would hurt her much more directly if you didn't attend, and the question you'd have to ask yourself is, would it be worth-it?

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Permalink Reply by Jackie on July 20, 2011 at 4:13pm

Nathan, thank you.  I agree with everything you said.  If someone WANTS to get baptized and is old enough, to have properly made the decision (ie researching multiple religions and the rites of passage and what not etc.) then by all means they should go for it!! I just won't be there. Hehe.

As for circumcision, I don't see why any person (male or female) would consciously choose it.  It's a barbaric ritual that serves no purpose for the real world, and has nothing to do with helping to make someone a better person. They used to make the excuse that it was medically necessary, and cleaner than not having it done.  But that is just not true any more (if it ever was). 

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