Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Nathan Hevenstone on July 20, 2011 at 11:25pm

If I had been given the choice, I would have chosen against it. If I have kids (I'm 24, and I still don't know if I want kids), I will not have them circumcised. They'll know about it, of course. When they're old enough (which I think will be obvious by what they start asking and in what context), I'll teach them all about religion and the God Hypothesis and so on (if they want to learn about it).

 

However, I don't hate my parents for the circumcision, or the baptism, or the first communion, and, as I chose to have a Bar Mitzvah, I certainly don't hate them for that. These are what they believe in, and I can't hold that against them. Hell... I myself only took a stance against it all in the last few years, when I "deconverted". I was all for all of it before then.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Tayler on July 18, 2011 at 12:40pm

Only you can decide whether to go or not. There is no wrong decision, just your decision. If you don’t go then tell you’re your mother that she is doing the very thing she accuses you of doing. She is being judgemental and disrespectful to you and she should be supporting her daughter and not pandering to her own beliefs. If you do decide to go, which is what I would do given that she is a very good friend of yours, then you don’t have to take part in any praying, singing etc. Explain to your friend that you would be there to support her and share her moment, not for the service at all, and would that be OK with her.

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Permalink Reply by Reggie on July 18, 2011 at 12:45pm

I agree with your mother.

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Permalink Reply by Jean Meslier on July 18, 2011 at 2:16pm

Your second mistake was listing to your mother. Your first mistake was not realizing that sharing in your friends celebration of the ability of parents to impose their will on ther offspring is not something that is EVER going to change. Your friend says she is OK with it, but she secretly thinks less of you for having no sense of humor and lack of flexibility, a common trait among many atheist.

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Permalink Reply by Philip Jackson Armstrong on July 18, 2011 at 6:13pm

 

I know it's not for everybody, but you have to show your parents at some time that you are your own person and that you have arrived. I would say in your case and you have to find the right words for your situation.

"Kiss my ass mom. It's my decision and ok with my friend. You raised me to be able to navigate life and I make my own decisions". You're response would not have to be at all similar to this but she needs to respect you as an adult and quit expecting your perspective of reality, what is right and wrong, and your values to be the same as hers.

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Permalink Reply by Jackie on July 18, 2011 at 6:33pm

Wow!  Thanks everyone!!  Definitely some great advice here, and much to think about.

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Permalink Reply by Dylan Sloboda on July 18, 2011 at 6:50pm

It may be judgmental, as is looking down on people for other ignorant activities. That is not a bad thing. If anything it was an act of respect for her daughter. Now, regarding your mother I've encountered the same hostile views from my own family. I've found that the best way of dealing with it is just to be blunt about it. Religious belief is delusional and that indoctrination is a very real threat to the child's well being. Religious people are very much aware of and afraid of the truth. If you are blunt they are forced to confront that fear, and rather than confronting it, they will just avoid discussing the subject from then on.

 

At first I was more of a tolerant or even apologetic atheist, but that only seemed to fuel my family's hostility. When I got tired of it, I spoke more candidly about how delusional religion is and now they avoid the subject entirely. If anything, we get along better now. And as a side benefit, my confidence in my views seems to have inspired other members of my family to explore their own doubts.

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Permalink Reply by Seth Jon Nonnemaker on July 18, 2011 at 6:53pm

Just tell her that you do not believe in fairy tales or superstition so you are respecting your friend by not attending. Just explain to her why you don't believe in baptism.

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Permalink Reply by MikeLong on July 18, 2011 at 8:54pm

I'm with those who say you're taking it too seriously. Baptism means nothing except to get a baby's head wet. So what. Your friend believes something magical happens. By staying away, you're telling your friend, "you're good magic is my bad magic. I want to stay away 'cause maybe some of that holy water might touch me and get Christian magic into me."

Look at it as something your friend is into and you're not. Maybe she performs and you do not. If she asked you to come to one of her performances, would you stay away because you don't perform?

Baptism means absolutely nothing to you. Why go out of your way to avoid it?

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Permalink Reply by Kairan Nierde on July 20, 2011 at 11:56pm

It's not just pouring water on a kid's head; it's the symbolic rebirth and most important, the beginning of their life in the church.  It's a celebration of their path towards religious indoctrination. 

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Permalink Reply by Doug Reardon on July 18, 2011 at 9:36pm

When people, with whom I wish to continue to have a relationship, say inane and incredibly tactless things to me, I practice the Zen of listening: Smile, allow their words to flow into one ear, through the head unimpeded and out the other ear.

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Permalink Reply by Tex in the City on July 21, 2011 at 11:37pm

It's harder in practice than in theory...but I try to do the same.  And I have to assume they attempt the same with me, I am not immune to tactless statements either.

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