Hi All,

We had a discussion many moons ago about atheists and morality and a lot has happened since then. I reached some new conclusions (which I'll withhold for now so I don't poison the water) and at least one other poster here has some new ideas about it.

So, I was wondering what the prevailing opinion is out there on this topic. Do you believe that atheists can be "moral"? Is it impossible for an atheist to be truly moral? Is "morality" something to which adherents have a valid claim? The infamous Dawkins and Harris had a discussion at Oxford about this about a year or so ago that was very good and I would also be interested in what anyone thinks of what was discussed there.

Thanks and all are welcome.

- kk

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Kir - the principle I've identified as the true basis for all morality, and the biological basis for "God's love", is the one I outlined in that thing I showed you; combined with the Golden Rule, and the Golden Rule has good sensible reasons behind it.  I don't want to discuss it here because the whole document isn't ready.  Sam Harris would use it as a stick to beat religion with, because he's morally a child, and I want to get the religious people supporting the whole thing because it will be much better for the world.  Think to yourself - what would the Dalai Lama say.  Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins are divisive and destructive in their approach.  The Dalai Lama wants peace, togetherness and understanding.  With your charisma and energy, and the ideas and approach I've already worked out, we can do what the Dalai Lama is asking for - a system of morality and ethics which does the job that religion should be doing, and which can make the true wisdom of religion available to everyone, including the religious who have been confused by all that stuff they talk. 

The hypothalamus is all very well and all that - but for this system, you don't even need a brain. 

Hey Simon,

I think this is one of your greats.

... Sam Harris would use it as a stick to beat religion with, because he's morally a child, ...

rflmao

... Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins are divisive and destructive in their approach. ...

Which is not how you sell a car.

The hypothalamus is all very well and all that - but for this system, you don't even need a brain.

lol, I understand.

- kk

Hmmm --

"No, it isn't - kk"

Arch - where did I say that? - kk

In your message to me.

Are you really sure about that, Arch? I see that you and Kir are not on each other's friends lists, and you don't seem to have had a comment on your page since October. I don't know of any other way that you could be messaged, apart from e-mail.

You ARE aware that we all have TA emails, aren't you, Simon? That's how most of my friends communicate with me.

You, on the other hand, lost that privilege after your earlier comment: "Arch - give it a rest, frankly you're being a total asshole."

If he wanted to tell me something he would just say it, because he has balls. 

"you and Kir are not on each other's friends lists"

"That's how most of my friends communicate with me."

Why, Arch? 

RE: "If he wanted to tell me something he would just say it, because he has balls."

Again, Hmmmm --

Why, what, Simon?

Why is it that, "That's how most of my friends communicate with me."? - because, astonishingly, we like to talk to each other.

Why is it that, "you and Kir are not on each other's friends lists"? - YOU're the one who said that that was the case, frankly I hadn't noticed.

Regarding objectivity, the way I see it is that it is possible to identify a small list of moral values which all homo sapiens within 3 standard deviations would agree with.  However, moral values are "high level" manifestations of the basic underlying principle, and that's probably why there is so much room for disagreement.  Many moral values which people hold would only be shared by a fraction of the human race, which is why they are not called objective values.  It is definitely true that not all values are completely based on my underlying principle.  That in itself doesn't invalidate those values. 

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