Hi All,

We had a discussion many moons ago about atheists and morality and a lot has happened since then. I reached some new conclusions (which I'll withhold for now so I don't poison the water) and at least one other poster here has some new ideas about it.

So, I was wondering what the prevailing opinion is out there on this topic. Do you believe that atheists can be "moral"? Is it impossible for an atheist to be truly moral? Is "morality" something to which adherents have a valid claim? The infamous Dawkins and Harris had a discussion at Oxford about this about a year or so ago that was very good and I would also be interested in what anyone thinks of what was discussed there.

Thanks and all are welcome.

- kk

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Kir, I'm always mystified as to what moral values theists believe are in the bible.  Mostly they point at "Thou shall not kill" and "Love thy neighbour",  It is quite worrying that without the bible, theists would be running around killing wantonly and hating vehemently.  If you are on a deconvert mission, might that not be a worthwhile place to start?

I think that's a much more fruitful path than trying to deconvert people. 

Hey Simon,

Okay, well I must not be understanding what you mean Strega. but if I read you right it won't get you anywhere, imo. It won't work because you'll get the odd reaction I described.

- kk

Uh, considering that George W. "I trust God speaks through me." Bush started the war in Iraq, with all of its wanton killing, and the Religious Right hates anyone who isn't White, Anglo-Saxon, Straight and Protestant, can anyone really lend much credence to that?

Hey Arch,

That's another, related problem. Its mass hypocrisy, Christianity being one of its best exponents. Problem is, that doesn't go over well as a subject in deconversion conversations.

- kk

Interestingly, Peyton doesn't seem to think deconversion has much value.

Yes he does - kk

Deconversion can have value, but equally, getting religious people to do their thing properly has just as much if not more value. 

Hey Simon,

That's a good point - kk

Hey Strega,

Do you mean, to suggest that if they had no Bible they certainly would not do those things? I think the actual answer I would get back would be, surprise, that they would in fact do those things. That's why they're adherents ... I know, but I just know it all too well.

- kk

If man is the measure of all things, then life is a real, multi-player shooting game and the last man standing is moral.

Encapsulized, the history of all battles, including the one for morality, is written by the victor.

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