I have no idea where to place this topic, I figured this would be the most appropriate.
I was in a major discussion recently, with a certain theist. I took a nice approach, I first made a joke, then attempted to come to common ground (I was raised a christian for 13 years)
Now I thought that folks on here would understand that just because I'm nice, and stated what I ONCE beleived, to show this person I'm not coming out of intolerance, or superiority, but common ground and politely stating my position on his beleifs.
So I was wrong. I first got a nice little dig at my veiw on christianity (again I know the history) then I was relegated to the equivelent of a chapter on different religions and why they disprove christianity (AGAIN I know)
The only comment to my post that was decent was from a theist. Apparently I can't be polite to a beleiver without the throngs of militant atheists wanting my blood. Don't get me wrong here, I'll be a down right ass if I see other's rights being trampeled, but this person was simply stating his oppinion (allbeit copy-pasted) but isn't that what this site is for? exchange of ideas? Don't clame to be a free thinker if you don't respect others' rights.
Also isn't squabeling amongst ourselves counter productive to the overall theme here?
Thank you. I will clarify, Pahu, a beleiver, posted a topic that was huge yesterday "science proves god" (I can link if you wish) but basicly I attempted to come to common ground as he was obviously proselytizing, copy paste statements and blatent ignorence of science/history. I was nice in a shitstorm of pissed off atheists. I would have been a real ass if he would have come at it from a negative stance but he didn't, this was the best way he knew to get his point out. Yes I disagree with him, however being a dick is counter productive especially in theistic eyes.
My sol reason for joining TA was to be able to have open (civil) dicourse with individuals regardless of the background. I am finding that if I don't phrase things correctly or get some obscure fact right I'm now relegated to one of those other compartmentalized groups. Based off of the comments, there are always those who think similar to me. But I must say I'm disappointed in those that made me wright this in the first place. Shame on you, You only bolster the negativity we already have by social dogma.
To reiterate, I am an atheist. I hate what religeon has the potential to do, I will be the first person to stand up for basic rights, however, if it is out of sincere questioning I don't take offense. And to be fair pahu was only proselytizing but he was only kind about it. thus no offence to me, yes he copy pasted most of it and faced with facts rejected them what else is new? Being a complete ass to that person only refuels the theist.
I have to think about it like this:
Most people who ascribe to "atheism" probably grew up in some religion. At some point in their life, they realized what the rest of us did, that it didn't add up. So now they have to fight for why they believe what they believe. I have had many conversations where I got up and walked away because the Christian did not want to listen to what I was saying. Maybe that is their way of "winning" but in my book, if you can't have a civil conversation, then why are you talking?
Second, in a world where the only interaction most people have is through their keyboard, it has become commonplace to attempt to lambast someone online. It gives us no real accomplishment other than to read our posts and think better of ourselves. For example, I am a Yankee fan. Yesterday Derek Jeter hit his 3,000th career hit. That's pretty amazing by anyone's standards! I congratulated him online (as if he would read it) and an old friend who does not like the Yankees "disliked" it. I am only congratulating him on his accomplishments. If you don't like a team/idea/whatever sometimes it's best to just keep your mouth shut. If someone put in 30 years for a company I was boycotting (none come to mind) I wouldn't say "congrats on sucking."
A phrase I used ALL the time in the Army was, "opinions are like assholes, everyone has one and most of them stink." A place like this, al you can do is ignore the assholes and enjoy the rest of us who can actually be civil.
I agree that having a rational polite discussion is the path to take. Those who go in looking for a fight are being counterproductive in my opinion. I was brought up Catholic, but being able to understand were they are coming from isn't why I prefer level headed discussion. Far too many theists assume us to be combative and close-minded. But I feel we should take the higher road. If we start right off being what they expect then we get nowhere. But if we defer from that path we can hopefully change the false perception of us, show that we really do know what we're talking about, and maybe even plant some seeds of doubt along the way. But I think we can all agree that 'being an ass' will get no one anywhere.
As for the thread in question... I have to agree that I wasn't a fan of some of the comments. Instant dismissal without explanation can come up a bit short. While his (copy &paste) argument fails miserably, just saying it does can seem close minded. Even though it was probably as waste of time, I was happy to see people explaining why it failed. Obviously, it is worse still when someone persists in outright attacks. I will however say that this ilk is not the majority from my experience. But the few can give the rest a bad name. That's why it is important to counteract this perception when we can.
Agreed. It was butchered science, and over all ignorence of modern scientific knowledge.
I however, don't think he was trolling, he just thought this was some gem of information we haven't heard yet, I even know the site he copy pasted from, I used to use it when I was resarching myself, (ironiclly became an atheist from it)
I have no idea how it ended I chocked it up to a cyclical argument from willful ignorence beligerent atheist sharks smelling blood.
I'm sure he did (de)convert going to wright the next "god delusion"