Hello friends,

I know you must be tired of hearing about my adventures on facebook, but I thought this would be an interesting discussion topic, so here it goes. I recently posted another great quote on my facebook page. This one was no specific to religion or atheism and I thought it illustrated a great point. Much to my surprise I quickly received negative feedback from an old high school friend who was an atheist back then, but now I am unsure if he is an atheist, but I believe he may be a satanist. All that aside, here is the conversation thus far... I would love any advice you may have and feel free to critique or discuss the over-all theme brought to light. Thanks.


(ME) Kyle Wilhelm
‎"There is a condition worse than blindness, and that is, seeing something that isn't there." - Thomas Hardy, British writer (1840 - 1928)

Kush Kant A great one Kyle. It so aptly applies to the "surety" of religion. The religios display this condition all the time but think they are in "light."

Gregory Alan Pearce Personally, I find the concept of "atheist crusader" to much of an oxymoron to take seriously. Clever observation is one thing, religious activism on your own part is quite another.

Kyle Wilhelm Who said anything about an atheist crusader?

Gregory Alan Pearce Now, don`t say that... You`re anything but subtle. Your hamfisted
attempts at  satire, your propensity to spout anti-religious dogma, and
your open attacks on organized religion -  all of these speak volumes.

Gregory Alan Pearce I don`t come knocking on your door, telling you that what you believe is wrong. It`s intolerant and disrespectful of others.

(ME) Kyle Wilhelm Greg,

First I would like to say that I find it rather dishonest to compare my posting of quotes and  occasional debate (usually always on my own profile) to going door to door and telling  somebody what to believe/not believe. Facebook is a p...ublic forum designed for people to  connect and discuss ideas. I am not doing anything remotely similar to what you are  implying.

Next, I find your use of the word "crusader" to be dishonest. A crusader was somebody who's goal was to conquer the "holy land" and use force to spread their religion and wipe out any opposing religions. This was accomplished by using force (including things like torture and murder) and was done in the name of god for religious and political reasons. My posting quotes and having an occasional debate is not even close to the nature of what a crusader is/was.

I believe the core of your comment revolves around this: you wish me to keep quiet about my atheism and avoid confrontation with religious people. If this is true then I ask you why? When religions seek to control the government, to pass laws against freedoms and rights, to indoctrinate and spread lies, to prevent proper medical research and application, and to commit hundreds of other different evils, then no sir, I will not remain silent.

The issue Greg is that religion is thrust upon me more often then you would imagine. On a personal level I am bombarded by religion several dozen times a day. Usually 50% of the post that show up on my facebook and myspace wall are religious, I receive a few emails a day from religious family and friends trying to evangelize to me, I turn on the radio or tv and there is usually a few ads telling me I'm not a good person and need their religion, I pass  billboards and church boards on my way to work, at work I am occasionally confronted by co-workers about their religion, at home I get knocks on my door by people spreading their
religious belief, my own family is made up of evangelical christians. I have no escape from this, I am bombarded many times a day, every day. I am told I am a bad person and going to hell. I am told their religious dogma should be forced upon me. I am not exaggerating in the least bit., this is my reality.

Until religions stop hurting others, forcing their beliefs on others, denying others basic  rights, trying to inhibit scientific and medical progression, and bombarding their beliefs on
others, then I won't be quiet.

I have no idea why my posting a few quotes and have a few debates (almost all on my own  page) sparked your comments, but I am not going to remain silent or accept your false judgement. I make no apologies for what I have said or done.

One last thing, why did you choose to address all of this on a quote that neither addresses religion not atheism? That is the most perplexing thing of all. Peace.

Kush Kant ‎@Mr. Gregory, why does religion as a subject demands our "tolerance"
and "respect?" People have every right to examine religion and its
assertions. If the religionists find that disrespectful, then so be it.

Gregory Alan Pearce I appreciate your patience as I endeavor to satisfy your questions, gentlemen.

To Mr. Kant`s question regarding my prior comment: There was a man, before I was born, that spoke a message of peace, tolerance, and
equality for all mankind, an
...d
for this he was shot and killed. His name was Dr. Martin Luther King
Jr. In it`s most harmless form, acting with intolerance and disrespect
can discredit you and what you represent while lending credence to that
which you oppose. At the more extreme end of the spectrum, well... it`s
far too easy to go too far once you`ve thrown out the rules of conduct.


Gregory Alan Pearce To be fair, Wilhelm, your beliefs themselves are not the object of discussion, but rather the means by which you express them, and the
manner in which you do so. Facebook is a social networking site
designed to connect family and friends.
...
By that token, when you post something as your status, you are putting
it in PUBLIC view. When you post a comment such as "Nothing fails like
prayer!", imagine yourself standing in the grocery store shouting it.
If discussion is what you desire, I would suggest joining (or even
starting!) a Facebook group where you can do so openly among like-minded
individuals without the chance of offending anyone.

crusade: noun. Any war undertaken in the name of religion; any energetic movement to remove an evil or improve a situation.

Noah Webster compiled a book that contained more truth between its covers than any word spoken by a man.

I work in Indiana and Homer City, and I drive back and forth between the two several times throughout my shift. I spend my nights here with the
radio on, listening to 94.5 and 107.1. Thereby, I am exposed to much of
the same religious adv
...ertising
that you are. I come from Northern Cambria, which, if your unaware, is
pretty much nothing but Catholics and pizza. I was baptized Catholic.
My mother is Catholic (and shares a birthday with Hitler. No
coincidence).

I`ve been an atheist (actually, more of a nihilist) for the better part of a decade and a half... so, ever since I was old
enough to ask questions about god. I grew up around people who quite
simply couldn`t comprehend what I was talking about when I said that I
didn`t believe in God; that is to say that the concept itself made
absolutely no sense and was a ridiculous and childish notion. And this
comes from my predominantly Catholic family as well, who said simply,
"We don`t believe in atheism in this family. You`re not allowed to be
an atheist."

Well, my mother also said that if our family believed in abortion, I wouldn`t have been born. So I have Catholicism
to thank for something, after all.

To say that religion is thrust upon you more than I can possibly imagine is an elitist, self-grandeurizing cop-out.

"For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction."

When you post controversial, anti-religious remarks, you`re asking people to bombard you with religious dogma. Cause and effect.

Yes, it`s true that great atrocities are comitted ...in the names of gods, and have been since the inception of religion. It`s also true that great humanitarian deeds are done by people who follow a
god that teaches them to love, protect, and lend aid to their fellow
man. Referring to them collectively as a group under any name is a
dishonest and dangerous way to do business. I would advise you to be
very clear and concise in addressing any religious matter, no matter how
simple. Attack a criminal, people applaud. Attack an innocent, and
you will be hanged.

To conclude this, and answer your final question, it was Mr. Kant`s
comment (and not the quote itself) which prompted me to voice an
opinion. So I`ll end this with a quote from me (yes,me), which I
believe so aptly applies to our conversat
...ion, and the topics discussed. Take it for what you will.

"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is outnumbered."

P.S.

"We`re all fucked. It helps to remember that." - George Carlin

Tags: Atheist, Crusader

Views: 23

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Sounds like fun.
Hilarious!

"I don`t come knocking on your door, telling you that what you believe is wrong." ... as he posts to your Facebook page to post to say you're wrong.

He says "atheist crusader" is an oxymoron and doesn't take it seriously. Then proceeds to get all bothered about it and takes it very seriously.
Oh I see where you hit it... right on the head.
I really think that we need to rename the Crusades if posting on Facebook is now grounds for being a crusader...
Just wanted to let you all know I updated this post with the conversation thus far. Any comments or advice?
Here we come, the Atheist Crusaders. If you accept reason, we will destroy your faith!
'We are not driven to the beaches and fortresses of our opponents by faith nor the hand of the Divine; We are not crusading armies descending on your homes, bureaus, and churches with the intent to absolve you from kindness, charity, and compassion; We are not bears of steel to rape and pillage, judging with a bigoted mind who is worth of life and deserving of death and shame; We have replaced steel with knowledge and logic, and our armies are bodies of evidence that are growing with every passing day; We ourselves change as our evidence does; We challenge our own beliefs and our own evidence and revise where need be; We do not require blind faith on what we say but would rather convince through reasoning and evidence; We are not an invading army or foreign nation; We are those who have realized the cancerous rot that has been feed by generations of gluttony and lethargy to believe in what cannot be seen nor proven by the trail it leaves behind; We have grown in fear as our opponents forsake all reason and follow their delusions into war and suffering; We only wish good but we will not cause suffering to achieve this; We will use words, not steel; We will not preach and demand belief without proof; We will ask that you only consider our evidence with a mind free from emotion and deem whose is correct on merits alone.'

Does this sum it up?
I think that is about right!


The Atheist Crusader is the one on the right.
They weren't True atheists. Just kidding! They are more the exception which proves the rule. Atheists don't have militias.
Agreed. I think that the point of the cartoon is that religion at its most extreme expression calls for violence. While I have not ever heard of the Columbine shooters as specifically atheist, their crime was certainly not motivated by their ideology if they did, in fact, lack a belief in god.

There is no logical link between not believing in a god and harming others; atheism does not in any way demand violence upon others who hold differing opinions. There are, however, innumerable directives in various religious doctrine which directly call for the brutalization of others outside of that specific religion.

The cartoon is an illustration of the basic structure of each ideology rather than the actions of individuals who may lay claim to specific labels. When the scriptures of both Christianity and Islam are taken to their literal extremes, violence and bloodshed are the inevitable result. As atheism has no such scripture and is basically nothing more than a reactionary philosophy, the "extreme" expression of atheism is nothing more than perhaps a louder voice of dissent.
There's no evidence the Columbine killers were atheists, and the Cassie "She Said Yes" story was a fabrication. A different girl, Valeen Schnurr, (already injured) was praying to god -- so one of the killers asked her if she believed in god. She said "Yes", but she didn't get shot again and she lived. The killers never asked Cassie anything.

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/1999/09/30/bernall
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassie_Bernall

Here's a religious guy, Internet Monk, reviewing the topic in some detail:
"Columbine is not about, and never was about, Christian persecution or any of the other culture war mythology we were told by leaders ready to use this tragedy to advance their own agendas and organizations."

http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/columbine-a-word-for-evangelica...

RSS

Forum

Torture Report release today

Started by Unseen in Ethics & Morals. Last reply by Unseen 1 hour ago. 117 Replies

Why do we tolerate this?

Started by Belle Rose in Crime and Punishment. Last reply by Unseen 1 hour ago. 23 Replies

My Grandpa died last week

Started by Physeter in Small Talk. Last reply by Erock68la 2 hours ago. 7 Replies

Ear-piercing a baby

Started by Simon Mathews in Atheist Parenting. Last reply by Davis Goodman 3 hours ago. 2 Replies

Blog Posts

Pabst Blue Ribbon to the rescue!

Posted by Ed on December 15, 2014 at 9:33pm 0 Comments

Finally, a cool billboard in Arkansas!

Posted by Ed on December 15, 2014 at 8:21am 2 Comments

Atheist Sites

Services we love!

We are in love with our Amazon

Book Store!

Gadget Nerd? Check out Giz Gad!

Advertise with ThinkAtheist.com

In need a of a professional web site? Check out the good folks at Clear Space Media

© 2014   Created by umar.

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service