I need some feedback on the assertion that Pantheists have proof of their god because their god is nature. This was brought up by someone on a forum after my response to a Creationist when I said that there is no proof for any gods (and alluded specifically to Abrahamic gods). The poster said that there is no proof for ANTHROPOMORPHIC gods - but then suggests that Pantheists have proof of their god because nature is god to them and nature exists.

Thoughts? Counter-arguments?

Tags: argument, evidence, existence, god, nature, pantheism, pantheists, proof

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Hi Reesie

Here is a great video by Dan Dennett. It covers your question to some extent as well as the “Deepity” concept. God is not a concept. The concept of God is a concept and the concept of god exists. If in a hurry just watch 14:00 to 17:30. Better though to set aside 45 minutes with a coffee.


Love Dennett. Definitely the most underrated of the Four Horsemen.

Tweedle dumb and tweedle dee.  

Or Tweedle Dumb and Tweedle Dumber.

Sounds like Einstein's god: "those laws by which the universe functions."  Hell, even a hard core atheist like me wouldn't argue with that. 

Well he's arguing that because some people consider nature to be god, and nature exists, that equates proof of god and it doesn't. The CONCEPT of god being nature exists, sure. But that doesn't make it PROOF of god. There's no absolute certainty behind it and I'm not sure how they would even go about proving it either. 

In that case God exists because fecal matter exists. Since fecal matter exists, God exists.

At any rate, WTF kind of god is nature. Nature just is. Is a god who just is any kind of god to worship?

It's a logical fallacy. That's all there is to it. He just keeps asserting and insisting on the same point. 

right he is dumb.. saying he thinks god is nature doesnt prove god exsist.. and then he said "it can " and he is just assuming.. you should be able to destroy this argument pretty easy .. in the end.. he still has not proven anything..

I did at the beginning and he just continued to call me ignorant even though he's the one who couldn't distinguish between a concept and actual proof. His main supporting argument was that since it wasn't an anthropomorphic god, it was considered proven because they saw their god as nature, which exists. So backwards.

tell him if that concept of proof was valid then he would have won a nobel award or somthing... the way he sees nature or the way he views the world has no bearing on actual proof of a god.. I would just say hey .. if nature is proof of a god for you that is great but thats is not proof for anyone other racinal  human ..that s why you havent won any awards for your discovery becuse no one in their right mind considerds that proof 



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