This just hit me today - Is it even possible for someone to actually believe Yahweh and Jesus are real BUT also at the same time reject them and accept eternal damnation? I have never ONCE heard from anyone in my studies on religion of a person who satisfied both criteria.
Christians will sometimes confuse Atheism with people who believe in God, sort of because they think God is just obviously there all around us through miracles and nature, so they think everyone else must also 'know' God is real but that we deny his love etc. But his is obviously a misrepresentation of our position.
Just curious if anyone knows of an account of someone who firmly believed it's all true but also rejected the offer of salvation for sins. That would be interesting to discover...
Wouldn't Satanists fall into this category?
Only if they actually believe in the existence and truth of some version of Christianity that preaches these things. Otherwise, no. As I understand it, the Satanist's definition of "Satan" does not match the standard Christian one of this entity which makes it very easy to misunderstand their actual belief system.
Most Satanists - the non-occult kind - are atheists. They don't actually believe in the guy. Satan is just a symbol for their philosophy and people's nature
Yes, but isn't it so that the current trend is more toward Theistic Satanism with the LaVeyan persuasion being currently less fashionable? (This is not a rhetorical question btw.) But trying to make head or tails of Theistic Satanism is undoable. There seem to be more kinds of beliefs than there are believers (it looks like a substantial percentage of these jokers don't even really know what they believe in.)
There seem to be more kinds of beliefs than there are believers...
That's what I was thinking. I have to wonder if any of them truly believe they're hailing satan and want to burn in hell for eternity. Maybe a few, but...
I did. When I was young and I was told that animals didn't go to heaven. I remember asking my mother why I couldn't just abstain from God's shitty deal of heaven or hell.
I am more inquiring about people who literally believed in the Heaven / Hell dichotomy but still, even into their old age, accepted their fate into Hell for not accepting the gift of salvation. I think most ex-christians had at least some 'point' in their deconversion where they might have believed it was true / wasn't entirely certain and yet still thought God was a dictator not worthy of praise.
I remember doing this ever so briefly at about 15. I'd just started asking questions, realizing this life thing was a pretty unfair deal. This made me about as angry with God as with my parents. Luckily I was ultimately able to rationalize one of them away.
I've been wondering the same thing for a while.
The concept is an apologist's excuse and justification for hating atheists. It is up there with the screwed up logic that claims that every Jew is responsible for killing Jesus and stubbornly rejecting him as the real Messiah.
If I really believed the whole kit and kaboodle of the Heaven for Believers and permanent torture for Unbelievers then I might think it to be a devils' choice between the psychological torture of spending eternity with a heavenly mafia boss or the physical torture of eternally screaming in his dungeon. Neither version would be appealing but I would probably choose to suffer the mental rather than the physical pain. I'd do the same if I were given a similar choice by an earthly mafia boss. Most people would.
Atheists make a lot of silly jokes about preferring "hell" to "heaven" because they do not believe that either is real. If they were then a rational person would choose eternal oblivion in preference, if they had the power to do so. The horrific point of the Christian story is that the Jesus/Yahweh god doesn't provide realistic or humane options. Even worse, Christians make sick excuses for worshiping revering an entity that they would define as the epitome of evil if such an entity existed on earth.
Interesting post. I actually got a very religious person once to admit to me that if God accepts our 'decision' to be with him or not, that there would also be a 3rd option - which would be to obliviate my soul as if I would no longer exist in any form, physical or corporeally. I thought that was a win for me because they never thought of that before and just assumed everyone who didn't believe would go straight to hell. :)
If there is a documented case of someone believeing in God 100% yet rejecting salvation, they must also have the lowest IQ on record. The whole point to buying into the dog and pony show that is religion is so that you can save your soul from eternal damnation. Why bother believeing any of it just to deny it?
lol, you might be right about their iq level...but in reality, they wouldn't really be 'denying it', they would be simply not accepting the offer of salvation. You can't deny something you believe in, right? Isn't that like a Christian who asks us 'Why do You choose not to believe'?