I was just wondering if anyone has ever came across any good secular arguments against gay marriage. All I ever seem to hear is about how being gay is immoral, and they get that immorality thesis from the Bible so it doesn't really apply.

Tags: civil, gay, marriage, rights

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Studies have shown that Gay parents are, on average, just as good as straight parents, and more often than not, better. Link 1, Link 2, Link 3, Link 4, Link 5.

Out of curiosity, did you avoid the confirmation fallacy by also devoting equal (or more) diligence looking for studies that tended to show otherwise? If so, what were the results?

Now, don't misunderstand. I'm in favor of gay marriage on basic ethical principles, but I can certainly imagine that the children of gay couples can face some particular prejudices and other obstacles that the children of straight parents do not.

Marriage has a lot to do with religion, right? And religion has a lot hate against Gay people... Homosexuality and religion cross eachother in marriage. (Sorry if I'm wrong, I'm not a expert) 

Ah oke oke! I think you're right, I had a "christian" view on marriage (like the wedding dress, and the wedding girls to fear off bad demons, and the priest, and the christian madding vows) 

So now I know that marriage doesn't have to be based on religion, I see no reasons against gay marriage. thanks Kris !

(English is not my native language as your can read)

Love that you pointed out the cultural aspects regarding the practice of marriage Kris!

the only argument against gay marriage is that marriage is unnatural, its not the gay part thats unnatural, just the marriage part.

That's rather contrary to commonly-held belief. Any evidence? It seems couples have always paired off and it seems only natural for them to want to solidify their bond with a commitment.

As evidence, the man that a woman wants to procreate with is not the man said woman wants to raise the children with after procreation occurs.

Furthermore, it's a matter of the hen and the egg. Society trains us virtually from birth in our gender roles and produces this "dream" of a plan for us which naturally begins with marriage to a handsome/beautiful spouse with a really nice financial background, and ends with two Harvard Graduates who support you in your old age.

So the real question is, is marriage natural or is it a learned trait from having been raised within the confines of a married family?

We are not born with this desire, there are certainly no infants planning what gown to wear down the aisle. We are taught this desire, through watching TV and watching our own families.

For me, watching my family taught me that marriage is the worst thing you can do if you want to have a happy relationship and a healthy future. I have never desired marriage, and never plan to desire marraige. Last I checked, I was still a part of nature, therefor your "marriage is natural" hypothesis is invalid. =D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Haggard

He also liked meth. He is really creepy if you watch him close, a real American hero.

I think all the religious arguments are just a smoke screen for the one and only real objection to homosexuality, which is "I think it's yucky, and I should be able to make your decisions for you." personally I think religion is "yucky" but I don't make other peoples decisions for them.

What i dont get about the whole marriage discussion is why noone has stood up and said..

Fine.. marriage is a religious thing. We will now remove all regulation on marriage and state oversight since that now makes it fall under separation of church and state. Custody can be handled by family court, probate law is in place for domestic partnership, and community property is a civil law issue. Done.

It makes all arguments from anti gay marriage disappear in a puff of their own reasoning.

From my perspective, the state should not be involved in marriage at all. From my perspective, Marriage has and always will be a "religious" thing. As such, let them have it.

However, since it is a purely religious function, all benefits and attributes associated by the government to the status of "being Married" should be removed. Everyone should be considered an individual by the government, regardless of relationship status and living situation.

If the state so wishes to continue with their program of social engineering (i.e. giving tax benefits to individuals in social groups they approve of, such as the married and the breeding), then they should simply engage in Civil Unions for all.

It is VERY simple. The Government, produces documents for civil unions already. Simply abolish the marriage license and replace it with a universal system of Civil Unions. That's what it is really about anyway, the government acknowledging your new special tax status and legal status as a single entity in regards to income/debt.

After that, it won't matter anymore. If someone who is legally joined by the state through Civil Union wants also to be recognized by the church as married, then they will have to take it up with their church. In the same way that if someone who is married wants their special government identity, they will have to fill out the paperwork to get a civil union.

It is really that simple. Of course, that will never happen because America is over-run by the overly religious. =/

As for a secular argument against homosexual marriage? It doesn't exist, because a true secular does not view human rights as being changeable based on the race, gender, or political bias of the human.

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