Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Unseen on September 26, 2012 at 11:03am

@Arcus And why is a disparity in power harmful, what are the specific drivers which make it bad, and why would it be worse than i.e. Dahl's democratic dilemma?

Well, it would be pointless to answer that question without understanding what you count as a "driver." So, what sort of thing would you take as a driver that we might disagree about?

To me, it seems prima facie true that there is something undemocratic about people and corporations who already enjoy the advantages of wealth and power to use those resources to buy politicians and elections. And this is true even if the policies they foist on the public through this indirection are in fact good and/or true.

Permalink Reply by Arcus on September 26, 2012 at 11:51am

Something which drives the harm, much like how weapon type, bullet type, barrel design, ammo choice, distance, caliber, etc are the immediate driving forces behind the severity of a gunshot wound. It shouldn't be too hard to present one, seeing as it is, as you state, prima facie self evident, it's just better for a discussion to have some sort of launching point instead of a circular argument. 

DDD - that people form special interest groups which lobby for government programs and then turn around and vote against the funding of those programs - seems to be a substantially larger problem than the influence of the wealthy, seeing as they have only one vote too.

While mixing money in politics is not something I am in favor of, the deeper problem is that you, the voter, is allowing this without resorting to first (or second, for that matter) amendment rights. How did JFK put it again..?

Permalink Reply by Unseen on September 26, 2012 at 3:46pm

Something which drives the harm, much like how weapon type, bullet type, barrel design, ammo choice, distance, caliber, etc are the immediate driving forces behind the severity of a gunshot wound. It shouldn't be too hard to present one, seeing as it is, as you state, prima facie self evident, it's just better for a discussion to have some sort of launching point instead of a circular argument.

Greed is a driver. Self-interest is natural and virtually instinctive, but greed goes beyond answering one's needs into a territory wherein one is acquisitive to a degree that mimics addiction. Another driver is similar to greed: the impulse to control others for the sake of controlling them and for the sake of feeding the greed. You don't think a need for dominion over others is dysfunctional?

DDD - that people form special interest groups which lobby for government programs and then turn around and vote against the funding of those programs - seems to be a substantially larger problem than the influence of the wealthy, seeing as they have only one vote too.

One vote? You're ignoring the ability of the wealthy and powerful to influence both the electorate and the policy makers through manipulating the flow of information (the electorate) as well as the flow of funds (the policy makers). They don't even need to vote. They can buy votes.

While mixing money in politics is not something I am in favor of, the deeper problem is that you, the voter, is allowing this without resorting to first (or second, for that matter) amendment rights. How did JFK put it again..?

I refer you to my answer to your second paragraph above.

Permalink Reply by James Cox on September 25, 2012 at 12:04pm

Very freaking GOOD!

Thank you!

I will see if I can post this to my FB page.

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Permalink Reply by Richard E. Robertson on September 24, 2012 at 11:56pm

I'm an atheist Libertarian instead... and right now a volunteer for the Democratic party! I'm soooo confused! :p

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on September 25, 2012 at 12:39am

RE: "I'm soooo confused!"

John Travolta as "Vinnie Barbarino," in the 70's TV show, "Welcome Back Kotter," right? You had the accent down and everything!

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Permalink Reply by Richard E. Robertson on September 25, 2012 at 1:02am

Shhhh! You are revealing our ages!

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on September 25, 2012 at 1:17am

There's no disguising the fact that I'm a fossil - I make no "bones" about it --

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Permalink Reply by Richard E. Robertson on September 25, 2012 at 2:05am

*groan* Have I fallen into Xanth?

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Permalink Reply by Kris Feenstra on September 25, 2012 at 2:22am

You hoping Good Magician Humfrey can help you sort through the absurdity of this election?

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Permalink Reply by archaeopteryx on September 25, 2012 at 2:36am

Did you know that when Piers Anthony wrote those books, he had no clue that the title (pronounced, "Zanth") was included in his own name: "PierZANTHony --?

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Permalink Reply by Unseen on September 25, 2012 at 8:58am

I call myself a quasi-libertarian. I believe in maximizing freedom but not in throwing citizens under the bus at the altar of liberty. I'm at the liberal end of the libertarian spectrum.

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