We exist, FYI. Some of us are even pro-life.

ND HB 1572 FTW!!!

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Yes, it is.

But that's the most recent post; blogs list posts backward.
But the patients inconvenience or even pain doesn't outweigh the tapeworms life.

And antibiotics aren't better than assault.
But a tapeworm isn't human.
What makes a fetus more important than a tapeworm? You've already established that it isn't it's potential to be a conscious, sentient being that gives it it's importance. It can't be its life that gives it importance, for the tapeworm is alive too. So the only thing that makes it important is that "it is human". Now I'm not arguing that a fetus isn't human, I'm arguing that it isn't important. Or not important enough to not consider abortion anyway.

I believe that what significantly separates humans from the rest of the animals is our minds, our ability to dwell on the past, and to envision the future. If you don't have an active mind yet then you're no better than the rest of the organic matter on this Earth. With the only defining characteristic of this organic matter being that it's well on its way towards being a sentient being. So apart from discarding of some tissue membrane, all an abortion is discarding of is a potential mind. As I've stated before, banning the termination of a potential person is absurd.

So tell me, what are the grounds of your objection again?
I completely agree!
Ok. I'm much to lazy right now to read 14 pages of comments, so I'm just going to blindly throw my 2 cents into the mix.

I've been in very heated debates on FaceBook regarding abortion in the past. I guess I would say that I am pro-choice of life in that I think it is better to avoid pregnancy through use of contraceptive practices and to choose adoption if an unwanted pregnancy does occur. I realize fully well that that won't work for everybody which is why the ability to choose must remain. I will also note that I am an only child of 3 pregnancies my mother has had, & I'm fine with that.

Under no circumstances do I think it is a good idea to outlaw abortion because, as a great youtube video I saw on TA recently points out, what do you do to women who have 'illegal' abortions? If you make it a crime there has to be some form of punishment, otherwise what is the point of criminalizing it? I think being faced with such a decision is punishment enough, & that it is something to be considered with the highest gravity. It is not as if making abortion illegal will solve or stop anything. If that were to happen, the suicide rate among young women would undoubtedly climb, losing two lives rather than just one and effecting many more.

As for my earliest memory, I remember it feeling very much like...a machine being switched on for the first time. I woke up one morning and it felt like it was the first time I had ever woken up. I don't really know how old I was but I was wearing diapers and still sleeping a in a crib, which I had no trouble escaping from. So I couldn't have been very old. I may have other memories that predate that particular day, but in the chronology of my mind, that is always placed first in sequence.
Of course it is a terrible decision to make. The law is fully equipped to handle killings done under duress; that's why we have "voluntary manslaughter".
Of course it is a terrible decision to make. The law is fully equipped to handle duress; that's why abortion isn't illegal.
But wait!! You can't use anything like legalities or woman's rights in this debate. He said so!
Hahaha... ok. I think this is pretty much just an amusement slaughter-fest on this poor guy now. I'd like to think all atheists are above 'faith' and believing in an idea 'just because' (and despite the lack of evidence and science to back it up.) Clearly his convictions are more dear than proof, and nothing we can say will change that. (Wow.. sound familiar to anything else we know of? Fundies *cough, cough*)
Anyway, just because he claims to be atheist doesn't mean he has to be reasonable.

Duty to Rescue/Right to Rescue Laws
Trespassing Laws
Lack of any proof that an embryo/fetus should have rights to begin with.
Utterly impossible for society to live up to anti-abortion/birth control laws

It's clear that he has lost on all accounts and is unable to defend his arguments, therefore it's no longer a debate.
He obviously must be just begging for attention to continue on without any new material.
I for one am no longer going to humor him.

On that note, Nulono.. I'd just like you to take a look at this thread. Really look at it and scan through. Unless you believe that "God opens and closes the womb of women" and anything else is meddling.. or unless you believe that some soul is lit up the moment an egg is fertilized, there really is no evidence against abortion. Read what people have said to you. Think about it. Not a single person was swayed by your case.
Maybe.. just maybe when you think the entire world is crazy and you are the only sane person, it's the reverse that's true.
Maybe...if you stop and think... if it seems like everyone is being an asshole to you, it's really YOU with the problem.
I'm not saying the majority is already right, I'm just saying that if you were capable of unbiased analysis...a few things might click into place for you.
Either way, I wish you luck.
See ya around the site.
I wholeheartedly agree and this is why I have left the debate myself.
If you are arguing to convince us, well I think you need to consider that this site is full of reasonable and thoughtful people and they just are not moved by your arguments. Perhaps you should consider the possibility that you may not have considered everything in coming to your conclusion on this issue. I challenge you to reassess your position and consider all the issues before deciding.

You are not likely to affect change nationally when your position is not reasonable and does not deal with all the variables. You may think I just can't see the obvious, but I think you just can't see the less obvious.
1: This may surprize you, but I don't hold this view on faith.
2: Rescue laws do not apply because we are discussing whether or not the mother may actively kill the child.
3: Trespassing laws do not apply because the fetus exists due to no fault of his own.
4: Fetuses have human rights because they're human. As for proof, prove you, or an infant, or anyone has rights.
5: Good. One less discussion to keep track of.
6: I believe that people live and die due to natural causes, and that homicide is immoral.
7: It's not "the entire world" that disagrees with me. Even if it was, an atheist should be "reasonable" enough not to try to get away with ad populums.
8: See 'ya. I can barely keep up with this thread, though, and this forum is hard on my laptop.
No, there are still punishments for killing under duress.


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