Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Rev. James Thomas Hicks, D.D. on May 6, 2009 at 5:28pm

Very well put.

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Permalink Reply by Dave G on May 8, 2009 at 12:11pm

A very well put point, Lora.

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Permalink Reply by Nulono on May 7, 2009 at 12:01pm

Infants aren't self-aware.

It is not murder to deny the kidney, but it is to give the kidney and then rip off their head.

Abortion is doing something to SOMEONE ELSE'S BODY!

http://www.l4l.org/library/fetalrts.html

Denying my opinion due to my gender is an ad hominem.

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Permalink Reply by Robyn on May 7, 2009 at 12:32pm

http://www.zerotothree.org/site/PageServer?pagename=ter_par_1224_se...

infants are self aware...idk what you don't understand about that. i babysit children often enough to know this without research.

abortion is a choice that WE as women are given. to protect ourselves. men don't have a say. sorry, your controlling nature ends there too. if a woman wants one...then SHE HAS ALLOWED IT!

oh yeah, and denying your opinion becuase your gender is an ad hominem, denying your opinion because it is crazy is my opinion and right.

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Permalink Reply by Chelle on May 7, 2009 at 1:31pm

You say that your gender is irrelevant and I do agree, but as a woman am shocked that you have a view that it is ok to force your belief about life upon women who may not share your view. It is simply outrageous to me that you would basically force a women to go through pregnancy and childbirth. It is not reasonable to view this as murder because the unborn child requires it's mother's cooperation. If that mother does not want to give it, than that is quite simply HER choice. I am frustrated with you equating it to murdering a living person because it is VERY different. A woman's reproductive health is her responsibility and that includes deciding if she wants to continue to have anything growing INSIDE her body.

I am trying to be emotive about this because perhaps your gender has made you miss the point that women are completely outraged by being told that they do not have the choice about how to treat their own body. I picture the woman devastated by a difficult pregnancy, a woman in agony in child birth with the result of a baby who is resented when born or who is given away unwanted. I picture a woman enslaved by the state into putting herself through a process that is meant to be a joy, a moving into a new phase of life.

My gender means that I have grown up thinking about this process of pregnancy and birth and parenthood and it is very personal to me. When I chose to become pregnant I suffered through pregnancy, but it was my choice because of the joy I felt thinking of my wanted baby. When my baby was born and I held her in my arms it was just as I had hoped it would be my whole life. When I looked at my wanted child I felt love and an emotional connection that has been built on in my relationship with her. If I had been through this process by force it would have completely ruined my experience of this very personal and massively important part of my life and the life of my new baby.

I am telling you this because I believe strongly that a person's experience of life, the quality of their life is more important than the loss of a life not led. The life not led will never experience anything unpleasant, but what you are advocating is very unpleasant for the women and has a knock on effect to all those close to this injustice to a woman's liberty

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Permalink Reply by Misty: Baytheist Living! on May 8, 2009 at 12:34am

..under that logic I could simply refuse to feed or warm a newborn and it wouldn't be murder!

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Permalink Reply by Nulono on May 7, 2009 at 2:13pm

What if the father doesn't want a child? Does he not, under reproductive freedom, have the right to CHOOSE infanticide? Would banning it not infringe upon his RIGHTS?

Infants become self-aware as 15-21 months. Google "rouge test".

Spontaneous abortions are as inconsequential to the question of induced abortion as cancer is to the question of murder.

http://ravingatheists.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=116&...

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Permalink Reply by Rev. James Thomas Hicks, D.D. on May 7, 2009 at 2:34pm

So men do have the right to abort a woman's baby if he's not ready like the hundreds of women do for themselves everyday. I did not know this. In a sense, he's doin' her the favor of avoidin' the brunt of parentin'. Amazin'.

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Permalink Reply by Rev. James Thomas Hicks, D.D. on May 7, 2009 at 2:50pm

Oh, so men can't advocate an abortion for a seed he does not what but can't advocate for it to live if the woman wants to abort. I know, I know, I'll never know what it would be like to bare children. That's like sayin' it's my fault that God made me a man or that I chose this for myself.

A man is ordered to pay child support for a baby he didn't want. The judge proclaims, "You should have thought 'bout this before gettin' her pregnant" Another man is tryin' to prevent the abortion of his baby when the judge proclaims, "You should have thought 'bout this before impregnatin' a pro-choice woman".

I know it's not my body but a woman knows what it takes to get pregnant. If she doesn't then I can see ignorance playin' a role.

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Permalink Reply by Rev. James Thomas Hicks, D.D. on May 7, 2009 at 3:11pm

I thought that was quite odd too. If that were the case, killin' a baby a few months after it were born would be legal as well. That didn't help his case at all.

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Permalink Reply by Nulono on May 7, 2009 at 9:43pm

No, that's not the case. Our law doesn't define personhood based on self-awareness.

Google "rouge test".

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Permalink Reply by Robyn on May 7, 2009 at 3:17pm

thank you...i agree

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