Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Nelson on September 9, 2011 at 3:00pm

this is of the "can god create a rock so heavy even he can lift it?" variety of attempts to attack omnipotence.

the problem is, god's omnipotence is usually taken in the philosophical literature to mean that he has the power to do things that are logically possible. if, as he is conceived, god is that which nothing greater can be conceived, then by definition god can't logically create anything greater than himself, for at that point, by definition, he would cease go be god. but he IS god. that god can't make a "square circle" isn't a problem for his omnipotence

see Nicholas Everitt's The Non-Existence of God for a good treatment of omnipotence (pp  255, Chapter 13). the rest of the book is fantastic as well.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Unseen on September 9, 2011 at 5:12pm

But Christians have never shied away from paradoxes before, have they? He's one, he's three, he's three-in-one. He gives us free will on the one hand but subjects us to laws of the universe which seem to operate without exception, unless HE intervenes to perform a miracle, of course. He made the universe, he made the laws under which it operates, which are logical laws, but does HE live inside the universe subject to it laws, including logic, or does the universe exist separately from him, freeing him of its laws?

 

Lots to think about there.

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Nelson on September 9, 2011 at 5:15pm

i wasn't addressing the question of whether or not Christians have never engaged in paradoxical thinking or contradictions. i was addressing this particular item.

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Doug Reardon on September 9, 2011 at 3:46pm

Can god create a universe that doesn't need a god to create it?  If so, then the god hypothesis is unnecessary.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Alex Johnson on September 9, 2011 at 3:51pm

Does God know the process to create another God? If not, is IT then not omniscient?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Great Dane on September 9, 2011 at 4:09pm

Ask Max Headroom - he would know ;)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Unseen on September 9, 2011 at 5:15pm

Max WHO?

 

 

 

I'm keeding! I'm keeding!!!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Great Dane on September 9, 2011 at 5:38pm

Actually, your answer is right here ;)

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Spencer on September 9, 2011 at 10:21pm

Here's another one I've come up with, it's not likely to be original considering how much thought has been poured into this sort of thing, but it's valid as far as I can tell... I don't believe it includes full omnipotence, unless you count perfection:

 

If God is perfect and completely good, and he is also omniscient, (he knows all, past/present/future):

If something tragic occurs, he is:

a) Testing our faith, however...

      He cannot test our faith, because he is both perfect and omniscient. Since he already knows everything, testing us would be unnecessary and thus not possible because he's perfect. Ergo, the universe breaks (or something).

b) Not entirely good, since he is intentionally (an accident would imply imperfection) causing harm.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Matthew on September 9, 2011 at 11:26pm

Whats funny is that in order for the universe to be able to support life, electromagnetism and gravity have to be 100% accurate to tens of decimal places, if it were one millionth of a decimal place off, the universe would fall apart. Thus, god could not have created the universe in any other way, it was this way or no way. If god cannot create a universe in any way he wants, he is not omnipotent.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Unseen on September 9, 2011 at 11:43pm

You're assuming he can't create any universe he wants with any physics he wants. He's magical. Remember: miracles!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Albert Bakker on September 10, 2011 at 3:10am

Actually no, those are the premises of the fine tuning argument and they are flawed. You are narrowing them down even further than the argument needs to Universes compatible with life in general, which widens the possibilities even further, perhaps into the realm of pure speculation.

http://www.colorado.edu/philosophy/vstenger/fallacy.html

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page