I posted this on my blog but realized I should have made it a discussion topic...sorry if this annoying, I'm new to the site!


I hope some of you have watched this series 'Ancient Aliens'.  I bring it up here, because the 'experts' that are interviewed remind me of supposed experts in the fields of creationism and relgion.

Have any of you watched it?  Like a fking train wreck, I try but I can't look away!  For those who haven't seen it, 'experts' on possible ancient extra-terrestrial visitors discuss how certain hard-to-explain structures or works of art may have come to be.

Take the Egyptian pyramids for example.  An expert will claim something such as "there is simply no way that people 5,000 years ago could have built these pyramids", without any real explanation as to WHY they could not have done it, and immediately jump to the conclusion that they must have been visited by super intelligent aliens who gave them the technology and engineering expertise needed to build such a thing.  They go further and surmise that the reason for the mysterious air shafts running through the Great Pyramid were possibly hydrogen refueling stations for alien spacecraft.  They then provide absurd drawings and examples of how such a thing would work.  They never seem to ask the logical question: why did the aliens stop helping us?  why/how did we lose these technologies?  why is it that the aliens would teach ancient egyptians how to build a hydrogen storage and refueling station, but none of the technology of how to build a hydrogen fueled craft of their own was ever passed on?

It reminds me very much of a believer blindly following what they read in (or are told is in) the bible.  Not thinking for themselves.  Not using REASON.

I really don't know where I am going with this post, just curious what, if anything, others here might think about this show and creationists/believers/blind faith in general?


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Did I say that I believed it when people said they were abducted and molested?  Perhaps you should learn to read a little better.

I don't suggest that aliens have never been here because it would just be too hard - I simply have no reason to believe they've been here because I've seen zero compelling evidence of such a visit.  This is similar to my stance on invisible boogiemen/gods.  If I have a religion, then my central dogma is requiring evidence before formulating a belief, period.

Now, when everyone thought the earth was flat, their observations supported that.  Look around you...are you able to see that you are standing on a ball?  The curvature is so slight that to the naked eye the earth seems flat.  Without further evidence, that is what I would believe.  What people were missing, in the equation, was just how massive the earth really is.  Even knowing the earth is round, I also realize that the curvature is so slight that in my day to day life it functions as flat.  It's about degrees of being wrong - and you really should look up that book, the Relativity of Wrong, or whatever it was called.

Why are you so married to this idea of aliens?  Because it's cool?  I think it's cool, and love to give it consideration - but it's pure fantasy.

WWho said that they accept the claims of alien abductees? You're straw manning, Ryan.

There is no evidence of alien visitation to the Earth, either currently or in the past. Without evidence, why should anyone accept the claim? If evidence surfaces of an alien presence, then accepting the claim becomes reasonable, provided that the evidence is sound.

What is generally believed and what is accepted as scientifically viable are not the same thing and is actually an argument in favor of not believing things to be true without supporting evidence.

You seem to be presenting a common 'all or nothing' fallacy, wherein if we do not know everything (your 'absolute answers') then we can't say we know anything.

No, it's not closed minded to recognize the superstitious, paranoid writings of Bronze Age cult leaders as having no compliance with the cosmos we can now observe.  To suggest that there might still be gods because we don't know everything is EXACTLY like saying "Perhaps there might still be a luminiferous aether, because I have not, as yet, checked under my desk."  The luminiferous aether was proposed to explain a predicted phenomenon.  When the predictions were falsified, we knew it did not exist.  To suggest that the luminiferous aether may then be something else is to admit that what it had originally been proposed to be does not exist.  It is the same with gods.

People can make up all the gods they want, but that does not cause them to exist.  We will yet discover things which we did not know existed, but to apply the word 'god' to those things simply proves that the things fabricated by man never existed.  You can reduce the meaning of the word to absolute nonsense, and then you'll have gods, because nonsense is seemingly eternal in the human mind - just watch the History Channel if you don't believe me.

Ryan, the argument you're raising here is had everyday by everyone here. The argument that: "Why don't you believe something that you can't prove is false."

So my question to you is... Why don't you believe in the Flying the Spaghetti Monster?

Ryan, the area around the pyramids is one of the most thoroughly examined bits of real estate on the planet. No one has found anything that could be regarded as alien. Not one little screw. In all the reports of UFOs and alien abductions no physical evidence has ever been found. We do not base our knowledge on what might be. If and when we find the alien ship at the bottom of the Baltic we will then have rethinking to do, but we haven't found it yet. And even if we do find it, it wouldn't prove that aliens built the pyramids.

Show me a shred of evidence that aliens have visited this planet and I'll believe in it.  If you want to believe in invisible boogiemen with no evidence, then go ahead - it just puts you in the category of skypilot with all the other theist types.

Just because it is likely that life exists somewhere else in the universe doesn't prove we have been visited by extraterrestrials. The amazing distances involved make this extremely improbable. Funny thing about the unexplained. There is no explanation for it. If you don't know how something happened, you don't know how something happened. To say aliens, or god, must have done it is not logical in the extreme. 

Actually, you are believing things without proof. There is no evidence for alien visitation, yet you are claiming that it happened.

And while absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence, the absence of evidence that ought to exist given the truth of the premise is evidence against that premise being true.

For example, if I postulate that I have a pet Great Dane and yet no one has ever seen it, I never buy dog food, never go the vet, never have dog hairs on my clothing, live in a small apartment with a no pets clause, and don't have a dog license from the city, the absence of evidence for the existence of the dog is enough to doub-t its existence until some positive evidence is presented. It's not impossible that it exists, but it's more likely that it does not.

As for the unexoplainable, the proper answer for the unexplainable is "We don't know", not making up answers out of whole cloth. I'll leave that toi religion.

while I would agree the vast majority of ufo's can be explained there are some number of cases that cannot be. Now whether aliens are sometimes visiting earth for one reason or another I do not know but its irresponsible to just dismiss the many sightings made by solid witnesses. I believe that the subject deserves valid study and shouldn't just be whitewashed like in the past. The biggest problem is that there is so much garbage out there to sift through that it hurts the cause of investigating UFOS. My suggestion would be to look into the cometa report which was written by some pretty intelligent folks with well respected backgrounds. Another suggestion is to read good book on the subject is UFOS, Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials go on the record. 

Given the known unreliability of eyewitnesses and the lack of objective evidence (videos that are not so blurred as to be useless, non-terrestrial alloys from debris, visiting aliens saying hi, etc), it is far more likely that the unexplained sightings are simply unexplained, not alien spacecraft. As I mentioned earlier, the proper response to somethingwe don't know the answer to is "We don't know", not "It can't be explained, therefore it was aliens"

I certainly support people looking into the causes of unexplained sightings, but it's not rational to jump to the conclusion of 'alien spacecraft' without evidence to support it. We might as well say it was Eris sowing some discord by making people see things.

I can dismiss the vast majority of sightings based on tricks of the eye, mis-identification or hoax but there are cases that have many factors to them where after looking at all the evidence together it seems most possible that the object is under intelligent control. One of the best incidents that really makes you question things I've read was about the 1976 Terhan UFO incident. There is a decent general wikipedia article about it for some general info but the best direct account I've found was in the book I mentioned earlier from General Parviz Jafari one of the F4 pilots who was sent to intercept the object. It gets to a point to where it's very hard to ignore the info. It seems at least in this case and in a very and I mean very small number of cases the most logical and likely thing is that there was an object under intelligent control able to out preform any known man made aircraft observed.  All I know is if I tried to fire an Aim-9 more then once from my F-4 and suddenly my planes ablity to fire was disabled during both attempts as if at will  I'd be scared shitless about what it was. I just highly recommend you read about it at the very least. We just have to be careful that we don't set ourselves up to where we are skeptical to point of putting our fingers in our ears and screaming loudly when someone reports something.  

To briefly answer your question "Why have aliens always looked close to the same throughout the existence of humanity.  Even in ancient caves separated by thousands of miles?"

How do you know they are drawings of aliens?  More likely they are just stylized images of humans.  Perhaps humans in costumes for some ceremony.  Or maybe they were just being creative.  Ask a child to draw an alien and you might get a lot of different ideas of what that is, but I bet if you ask them to draw "a spaceman" or an "alien coming off of a spaceship" that most of the children are going to draw something humanoid, because on this planet only humans are capable of technology greater than using a stick to scrape termites out of a hole in a tree for food.

For the record I don't purport to be a child psychologist, but I was a child at one time.


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