I posted this on my blog but realized I should have made it a discussion topic...sorry if this annoying, I'm new to the site!


I hope some of you have watched this series 'Ancient Aliens'.  I bring it up here, because the 'experts' that are interviewed remind me of supposed experts in the fields of creationism and relgion.

Have any of you watched it?  Like a fking train wreck, I try but I can't look away!  For those who haven't seen it, 'experts' on possible ancient extra-terrestrial visitors discuss how certain hard-to-explain structures or works of art may have come to be.

Take the Egyptian pyramids for example.  An expert will claim something such as "there is simply no way that people 5,000 years ago could have built these pyramids", without any real explanation as to WHY they could not have done it, and immediately jump to the conclusion that they must have been visited by super intelligent aliens who gave them the technology and engineering expertise needed to build such a thing.  They go further and surmise that the reason for the mysterious air shafts running through the Great Pyramid were possibly hydrogen refueling stations for alien spacecraft.  They then provide absurd drawings and examples of how such a thing would work.  They never seem to ask the logical question: why did the aliens stop helping us?  why/how did we lose these technologies?  why is it that the aliens would teach ancient egyptians how to build a hydrogen storage and refueling station, but none of the technology of how to build a hydrogen fueled craft of their own was ever passed on?

It reminds me very much of a believer blindly following what they read in (or are told is in) the bible.  Not thinking for themselves.  Not using REASON.

I really don't know where I am going with this post, just curious what, if anything, others here might think about this show and creationists/believers/blind faith in general?


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so aliens fall into the same catagory as the flying spaghetti monster? Wow, so you must think earth was created just for us and the universe is empty.
im not sayin I dont belive stuff without proof but the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
Why have aliens always looked close to the same throughout the existance of humanity. even in ancient caves seperated by thousands of miles?
Its to bad every unexplainable thing just isn't real to you. I guess thats the problem with atheism, you absolutely need god and the paranormal not to exist, as badly as theist need god to exist.

Just because it is likely that life exists somewhere else in the universe doesn't prove we have been visited by extraterrestrials. The amazing distances involved make this extremely improbable. Funny thing about the unexplained. There is no explanation for it. If you don't know how something happened, you don't know how something happened. To say aliens, or god, must have done it is not logical in the extreme. 

Actually, you are believing things without proof. There is no evidence for alien visitation, yet you are claiming that it happened.

And while absence of evidence is not necessarily evidence of absence, the absence of evidence that ought to exist given the truth of the premise is evidence against that premise being true.

For example, if I postulate that I have a pet Great Dane and yet no one has ever seen it, I never buy dog food, never go the vet, never have dog hairs on my clothing, live in a small apartment with a no pets clause, and don't have a dog license from the city, the absence of evidence for the existence of the dog is enough to doub-t its existence until some positive evidence is presented. It's not impossible that it exists, but it's more likely that it does not.

As for the unexoplainable, the proper answer for the unexplainable is "We don't know", not making up answers out of whole cloth. I'll leave that toi religion.

while I would agree the vast majority of ufo's can be explained there are some number of cases that cannot be. Now whether aliens are sometimes visiting earth for one reason or another I do not know but its irresponsible to just dismiss the many sightings made by solid witnesses. I believe that the subject deserves valid study and shouldn't just be whitewashed like in the past. The biggest problem is that there is so much garbage out there to sift through that it hurts the cause of investigating UFOS. My suggestion would be to look into the cometa report which was written by some pretty intelligent folks with well respected backgrounds. Another suggestion is to read good book on the subject is UFOS, Generals, Pilots, and Government Officials go on the record. 

Given the known unreliability of eyewitnesses and the lack of objective evidence (videos that are not so blurred as to be useless, non-terrestrial alloys from debris, visiting aliens saying hi, etc), it is far more likely that the unexplained sightings are simply unexplained, not alien spacecraft. As I mentioned earlier, the proper response to somethingwe don't know the answer to is "We don't know", not "It can't be explained, therefore it was aliens"

I certainly support people looking into the causes of unexplained sightings, but it's not rational to jump to the conclusion of 'alien spacecraft' without evidence to support it. We might as well say it was Eris sowing some discord by making people see things.

I can dismiss the vast majority of sightings based on tricks of the eye, mis-identification or hoax but there are cases that have many factors to them where after looking at all the evidence together it seems most possible that the object is under intelligent control. One of the best incidents that really makes you question things I've read was about the 1976 Terhan UFO incident. There is a decent general wikipedia article about it for some general info but the best direct account I've found was in the book I mentioned earlier from General Parviz Jafari one of the F4 pilots who was sent to intercept the object. It gets to a point to where it's very hard to ignore the info. It seems at least in this case and in a very and I mean very small number of cases the most logical and likely thing is that there was an object under intelligent control able to out preform any known man made aircraft observed.  All I know is if I tried to fire an Aim-9 more then once from my F-4 and suddenly my planes ablity to fire was disabled during both attempts as if at will  I'd be scared shitless about what it was. I just highly recommend you read about it at the very least. We just have to be careful that we don't set ourselves up to where we are skeptical to point of putting our fingers in our ears and screaming loudly when someone reports something.  

To briefly answer your question "Why have aliens always looked close to the same throughout the existence of humanity.  Even in ancient caves separated by thousands of miles?"

How do you know they are drawings of aliens?  More likely they are just stylized images of humans.  Perhaps humans in costumes for some ceremony.  Or maybe they were just being creative.  Ask a child to draw an alien and you might get a lot of different ideas of what that is, but I bet if you ask them to draw "a spaceman" or an "alien coming off of a spaceship" that most of the children are going to draw something humanoid, because on this planet only humans are capable of technology greater than using a stick to scrape termites out of a hole in a tree for food.

For the record I don't purport to be a child psychologist, but I was a child at one time.

Ok, first I never said aliens built the pyramids. But did you know that fire cannot burn in the pyramids. No light can enter all the way through, how the hell did people see in there, let alone carve on the walls. Not to mention the structure inside would be a nightmare to move around in. I guess "im just sayin".. Is all.
And you admitted that if those discoveries were found it would "cause a lot of rethinking." I guess thats my point why be so sure about something that is so transmutable.
Gota cite for the pyramids' ability to suppress combustion?

As for how they ccould see, here's an answer from an archeologist:

How did the builders of the Egyptian pyramids illuminate the interior corridors and chambers during construction?
   Elizabeth, Web Post

Dr. dig responds:
The Egyptians do not tell us how they illuminated their pyramids. However, the remains of charcoal flecks in the mortar of the pyramids suggest that they used torches and oil lamps. These were certainly used in the Valley of the Kings, where they made the cramped tombs very smoky. The pyramids were built in horizontal layers, and the passages and chambers were included as the walls went up (rather than building the pyramid first, then excavating the passages and chambers within the pyramid mass). Thus, the pyramid builders would work in natural daylight as far as possible.

From: http://www.digonsite.com/drdig/egypt/107.html

I said IF an alien spacecraft were found it would cause a lot of rethinking. IF. Nothing has been found. Nothing at all. Not one tiny scrap of physical evidence has ever been found of any extraterrestrial visit. If the fire and the light stuff is true why would that be? Do you know? No. No, you don't.  So what are you trying to say? Am I supposed to come to some conclusion here? Based on what?

I would hope a conclusion isn't made off of a debate.
Torches and oil? Really? So oil produces oxygen? Last I checked fire needs oxygen no matter how flammable.
And any archeologist can say anything, like the ones that found the ark, or other crap like that.
And no one knows how the pyramids were built for sure, and why for that matter.
I know a killer whale exist even though ive never seen one, just like the lack of credible evidence that you have a dog, doesn't mean shit once you see the dog. So I could give you tons of unexplainable things revolving around aliens along with millions of personal encounters, arts stories, tribes that believe their from space, dogon people, maps of the world that are unexplainable.
Along with the discoveries of extremaphobes, proves that we know very little about life.
Not to mention the bacteria in meteorites and blue berries and past oceans on mars.
And again why the hell would people be drawing classic alien figures on cave walls from forever ago.
I dont know, I think their is plenty of evidence, problem is it goes against your "religion of atheism."
This may be news to you, Ryan, but the atmosphere has oxygen in it. This is what allows torches to burn. Shocking, I know.

And yes, if the dog was seen, that would be evidence that the dog exists. Got any evidence of your aliens? We're waiting.

No doubt you could provide tons of stories of alien encounters. I can provide tons of stories about encounters with bigfoot. In neither case are personal ancedotes considered to be evidence. Anyone, as you say, can say anything. It's evidence that matters.

You seem to have a strong disdain for sciencce and knowledge, particularly when it disagrees with what you want to believe. Sadly, reality does not care about what you want to be true, only what is.

You mention the bacteria found in meteorites. If you read up on the subject, you'd find that that claim is highly speculative and is not widely acccepted as the science behind the claim is not strong. The scale difference between the patterns in the meteorite and the Earth bacteria they were being compared against is far larger than reasonable and similar patterns can be caused by non-biological means. This does not mean that they are not fossilized traces of bacteria, just that the evidence is not strong enough to justify the claim that they are.

Looking back over the posts, I think that it is less that you have a disdain for science than it is that you seem to have both a much lower bar for standards of evidence in regards to what is possible/likely and an irrationally high standard for what is known. You seem to be willing to accept anything as evidence for what might be but require a 100% certainty for what is known.



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