Anarchism: threat or menace? (Scott Graves, this means you)

Okay, forgive me the attention-getting headline. 

Scott Graves has proclaimed himself an anarchist. I went through this phase for about a year when I was in my late teens. Since then, I think I've come to my senses. But I'm willing to give it a second look.

So, Scott, you have a lonely task ahead of you explaining...

that anarchism is a viable, workable, and sustainable political system

how an anarchistic country can participate in international relations 

whether anarchy is compatible with anarchism

indeed, in what sense and how can a country be a country under anarchism? well as any other questions TA'ers may pose.

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Talk about niggling every little detail.

You don't think the details are important?

I don't see a lot of Anarchist candidates on the ballot.

Well, they would be a fairly hypocritical candidate if they appeared on the ballot.

Also there seems to be a lot of garbage being tossed in my Anarchist bucket.  An + Archy.  No government.  How hard is that to understand?

So Unseen was right? Any and all criticism can and will be shrugged off and ignored.

I'm looking for a list of the accomplishments of anarchism, Scott. Something to put up against this partial list of liberal accomplishments. Any particular ones you would repeal?:

The GI Bill
Endangered Species Act
Environmental Laws
The Space Program
The Peace Corps
The Civil Rights Movement
Earned Income Tax Credit
Family & Medical Leave Act
Consumer Product Safety Commission
Americans With Disabilities Act
Freedom of Information Act
Women's right to control their reproductive future
Allowing citizens to view their own credit records
The Internet
Balancing the federal budget
The Brady Bill (5-day wait on handgun purchases for background checks)
Lobbying Disclosure Act
"Motor-Voter" Act
The Voting Rights Act
Unemployment Insurance
Food Stamps/WIC
Social Security
Peace between Israel and Egypt
Peace between Israel and Jordan
The Department of Education
The Department of Energy
The Department of Transportation
The Department of Housing and Urban Development
Labor Laws
The Marshall Plan
Winning World War II
Food Safety Laws
Workplace Safety Laws
The Tennessee Valley Project
The Civilian Conservation Corps
The Securites and Exchange Commission
Women's Right to Vote
Universal Public Education
National Weather Service
Product Labeling Laws
Truth in Advertising Laws
Morrill Land Grant Act
Rural Electrification
Public Universities
Bank Deposit Insurance (FDIC)
Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Public Broadcasting
Supporting the establishment of Israel
The United Nations

(Source: What Have Liberals and Democrats Ever Done For Us?)

That's a lot like Christians claiming the proof of their god is the world around us...

Even if I agreed that most of those were the result of liberalism I don't think all of them are as wonderful as you obviously think they are.  

Endangered Species Act - A staggeringly useless piece of legislation as shown by Penn and Teller.

Environmental Laws  -  The EPA was signed into law by Richard Nixon, is he a Liberal now?  He is a crook so I suppose it's easy enough to confuse him with a Liberal.

The Space Program - I like NASA well enough for their pure science research but they haven't done much to get our species living and working in space.  Not to mention showing no ability to learn from their mistakes.

The Peace Corps - A staggeringly useless organization.

The Civil Rights Movement - Resisted by Democrats, in fact Al Gore's daddy voted against it.

Americans With Disabilities Act - Another staggeringly idiotic chuck of legislation per Penn and Teller.

Women's right to control their reproductive future - But not to protect themselves with a firearm...

Allowing citizens to view their own credit records - Really?  This is a major accomplishment for you guys?  That's sad.

The Internet - Yeah, we know Al Gore invented it. 

Balancing the federal budget - By stealing from the Social Security surplus.  

The Brady Bill (5-day wait on handgun purchases for background checks) - Another staggeringly useless piece of legislation that is also unconstitutional. 

Medicare/Medicaid - I'll give you that one.  But hey, a blind squirrel finds a nut now and again.

Peace between Israel and Egypt - Why not claim to have set the sun in the heavens while you are at it. 

The Department of Education - Test scores in Math and Science going downhill since it's inception.

The Department of Energy, Transportation, Housing and Urban Development - Increasing the power and invasiveness of the federal government limiting liberty.  Congrats.

Winning World War II - I think the soldiers, many of which were not Democrats, had a lot to do with that.

The Securites and Exchange Commission - Which let the banks trash the economy to the point where we taxpayers had to bail them out.  Another feather in your cap I'm sure.

Women's Right to Vote - So modern liberalism started way back then?  Seems a stretch.

Universal Public Education - Which is going downhill no matter how much money you dump into it.

Supporting the establishment of Israel - And that has done so very much for world peace...

The United Nations - A huge waste of money that has caused far more suffering than it has prevented.

Most of your arguments against these organizations are post hoc ergo propter hoc as if the only factor is the institution or legislation and those who seek to undermine or limit them are totally helpless against them. Could none of them have failed due to amendments and compromises sponsored by anti-liberal elements?

Much of the rest involves the assumption that the road NOT taken would necessarily have produced better results. It might equally well be argued that they were instituted to remedy a situation that could have been far worse. 

These are all things that are supported by liberals, even if Richard Nixon (or some other non-liberal) saw the wisdom in them.

I actually agree with you on a few of them (Brady Bill, for example).

However, if you want to participate here rather than being a source of derision, you need to start providing evidence rather than just hinting that evidence exists. We do it. So can you.

Shorter opinion-laden posts and more posts with actual provable facts and/or links to same.

Blacks being "allowed to" marry whites, woman being allowed to vote, yes, they were liberal in their day.

SEC having been gutted by conservatives who felt regulations were bad for business, so made heads of business in charge of the SEC, so that the lack of regulations and the business leaders ending up overseeing business practices...lead to an economic collapse, sure, that, somehow to you, is a liberal mistake?


And so forth.

You don't have something better, you just keep trying to imply that society should support you, via medicaid/medicare, but, no one else's type of problem should be taken into account.

Also, Penn and Teller are magicians and a comedy act.  They are not experts on any of what they are being quoted on.

Atheism = not believing in supernatural powers.  It doesn't also mean anything else.  IE: Some atheists might be idiots, or the most intelligent people on the planet....or anywhere inbetween.

Someone can be good at some things, and not at others.  If you are a great magician, it doesn't make you a great philosopher, or, visa versa.

If someone is a failed locksmith, or poor magician, it doesn't mean they are not a great philosopher or not either....its not relevant.

So, quoting Penn, or Harpo, or Houdini, on subjects they have no expertise in, is not compelling evidence in of itself.

You dis Penn and Teller?  Have you watched their Bullshit shows?  They let both sides speak and when someone lies or misrepresents the facts they call them on it.  They had a crew of researchers who dug deep and came up with a lot of really good information.  They did a far better job of presenting the issue than any news program I've ever watched.  Yet you toss them aside because they didn't come up with the answers you wanted.

Isn't that what you guys say people who don't drink the Global Whatever you call it these days Kool aid do?  Hypocrite much?

Hey, you forgot a few.  Like the Vietnam War, the Korean War, World War I and of course all the lies that got us into those wars and kept us in them.  Thus all the dead soldiers, sailors, marines and airmen are an accomplishment of Liberals as well.  Also, depending on if you accept the facts that FDR intentionally got us into WWII then all those dead bodies are your accomplishments too.  Also don't forget all the civilians who were killed in those wars, those too are your accomplishments.  No Libertarian ever got us into a war and got millions killed. 

Now if we add all the dead bodies Stalin, Pol Pot, Chairman Mao and the rest of the intellectual descendants of Marx piled up that's an incredible amount of dead fathers, mothers, brothers, sisters, sons and daughters not to mention their hopes, dreams and all the things they could have done should be on your list as well.

Congratulations Liberals.  An impressive list indeed.  

Liberals aren't the warmongers. That's the conservatives, the Republicans. 

Did FDR lie about Pearl Harbor? Tell that to all the dead sailors. We got in to come to the aid of Western Civilization generally and our ally England in particular.

A lot of our errors since WWII have to do with paranoia ABOUT collectivism (Communism) rather than any palsy-walsiness toward collectivism. In that regard, anti-collectivism has been quite harmful. 

I'm not trying to sweep any of the excesses of Communism under the rug, but they HAVE delivered far more to the masses than their royalist predecessors, you can't deny that.

Let me get this straight, Scott - you blame totalitarian regimes on liberals? Hmmm ....

Here's me thinking that the 2 are polar opposites ...

Scott, almost everything you write is stuff you are just saying. No evidence. No justification. No backing up. If we don't agree with you, we're just blind to what you—with your much clearer vision—can see.

Don't you see the problem there? 

For example, if the Environmental Protection Agency has actually damaged the environment, provide evidence. I'm not even asking you to prove it.

Actually, the agency's policies have helped immensly, but the agency itself just polluted alot of Colorado. (Accidentally)

It was due to a cost/benefit analysis of procedures, and, as a cost cutting measure they were pressured into, took a chance on a cost saving measure, and, it cost them big time.


All the seasons of Bullshit are a good place to start.  You can find them on Amazon Fire and maybe Netflix, I've not looked there.  They did all the research needed and then some.  Start there and if you need more get back to me.  Warning though, watching the shows from beginning to end can be an overload of facts and your Liberal ideology may be shaken.  


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