Hello members of Think Atheist. I am about to post a comment I made in the 'The black people' discussion.
It is as follows.
"It depends on 'how' you criticize a group of people.
It is a fact that in the USA , the highest %'s of crime is due to Blacks - and generally there is a positive correlation between the population density of blacks in large cities to an increase in crime rate.
It is also a fact that most inner city schools are a majority Black. They also have the lowest test scores.
It is also a fact that most 'hip-hop' and 'rap' music on the market includes a lot of Black people cursing, and talking about doing drugs in their cars, killing cops, hittin up dem 'hoes', dropping out of school, etc.
It is also a fact that there are many Blacks in this country who openly speak out about the Black community and criticize them ... and rightfully so.
But this is obviously not because they are Black. It is because of social and economic reasons. You need to be careful how you analyze the situation - to say these symptoms are because they are 'Black' is just disgustingly ignorant. But the fact does remain that blacks are a problem in the USA communities.
My uneducated reason for this - is because after slavery was abolished - Black people were still either feared / hated / put down / segregated , etc ... and only in the past few decades have they started to be accepted as 'human beings' by the vast majority of whites.
But I will say publically that they are not doing their job as a group in our country to better themselves and to make great lives for their children. Many are too busy putting down education - getting involved in drugs - getting young teen women pregnant (or getting themselves pregnant) - and paying too much attention to popular black media that makes millions of dollars every year keeping blacks in their same positions.
It's not cool to impregnate - be a drug dealer - talk about killing cops - breaking the law - poppin bottles in da ice like a blizzard - or using extremely vulgar language - or using a form of music lyric ebonix.
With all that said, if evidence was put forth that white populations were in fact less intelligent - this would easily be accepted. If it points to Blacks - riots would occur. I personally believe that Black people as a race are stronger - bigger - more athletic compared to their white / asian counterparts. This is easily observed.
Why can't the IQ or intelligence also be relative? I'm not saying it's true - I'm just saying it's a possibility - as I assume intelligence is part of the genes. As is your height - weight - etc.
Fire away at me - I'm sure most of you who criticize my post will have misread it thinking I'm being racist - when in fact I'm not."
Regarding Common. I've seen him live. I've read his lyrics. I find them specious, hollow, and I find him, the person, to be fraudulent in his message. Mos-Def is an ignorant idiot and has proven himself to be such on live television. I'm not familiar with KRS-One.
Regarding all rappers, I should have been more specific to say Mainstream rap. That was more congruous to the point I was trying to make of what you see on the media being akin to all people of a specific race.
I don't think that what I said was passive aggressive. I asked you for what I wanted. It may have rubbed you the wrong way. Sorry. If you post something, and then somebody posts a reply, then you go and edit it after they have replied, that is generally not intellectually honest. You could have replied to my reply or placed the four letter word in capital letters and a colon i.e. EDIT: to indicate you've added after your original post, which would explain perhaps why I did not respond to it at first to anyone else reading the thread. But since you wanted to be sarcastic about it, a passive aggressive comment on the same variation might read, "Thanks for editing your post after I had already replied. Appreciate it." EDIT: the passive aggressive post doesn't make a specific request, but leaves you to infer what irked me. I'm sure you'll thank me for this lesson, and you will be super grateful I cleared this up.
Thank you! I am truly grateful. I only added to my video post, and honestly only read your reply making the original "As poets they fail" post. I only edited because I wanted to bring more to the debate. Your later comment did strike me as petty, and somewhat childish, but in the name of intellectual honesty, I will gladly concede. So I am deeply sorry, and I extend my apologies for any sarcasm and any hurt as well as confusion. Now on to more fun stuff!
Simply calling someone ignorant or fraudulent, etc. does not mean they are not poetic, does it? That is just name calling and is borderline fallacious. I disagree with KRS-ONE's theistic views, but he is still a rapper, and his lyrics I find poetic. But I think that is where we disagree. I fail to understand what the nature of poetry is and how you distinguish rap from poetry. I do find that poetry does have a deeper meaning to the reflections of reality, and that definition is rough for what poetry is...very rough...I am open to better definitions. I do see your point about "Mainstream" rap, and how the media shows you vulgar, crude, black men wearing bling, but what backfires on the media, is that the same vulgar, crude, black men wearing bling are the same rappers who are rapping against the media showing those images as a way of marginalizing the rap/hip hop culture as opposed to using the language.
This is actually interesting. Perhaps we should move it to a different thread: Poetry Vs. Rap.
When I say "fails at poetry", I mean it in the internet geek way of, wow, you suck. My opinion. I don't mean it in the Howl obscenity case way of, this is not art, and has no merit. I suppose you could say Common is poetic by virtue of his words forming stanzas, but for me, that's like calling Hardcore music. They're doing something with sounds, and they can repeat it, but it's really not meaningful at all. His big song "They Say" was supposed to be really deep, but when you read the lyrics, it's really vague and has no themes. A lot of his songs are like that. I saw him shout at the conclusion of his song "Misunderstood" "I think Michael Vick is misunderstood," right after that whole situation had exploded and we learned the depth of his depravity. He strikes me as a guy who is angry about the right things for the wrong reasons, and his songs reflect that ignorance in his lyrics.
I loved that Saul Williams video though. More people like him and bands like The Roots will legitimize hip hop and rap as transcending its funky roots and gangster image into more social commentary.
So I have attempted to open up a discussion of hip hop. Let me know what you think, and hopefully we can continue our discussion there!
I wonder how much of this is based on outdated and disproved Scientific Racism and the book The Bell Curve. American Enterprise Institute political scientist Charles Murray was a co-author of the Bell Curve.
The American Enterprise Institute is a right wing, neoconservative think tank.
I was trying to tune into NPR on the radio during bad weather and ended up getting a Christian Broadcasting channel. The channels are near each other at the bottom end of the radio dial. I heard Focus on the Family leader James Dobson talking about a book he just read with good advice on child rearing and family dynamics. I looked up the book he was referring too and it was written in the 30's.
American Enterprise Institute main theme:
I didn't consider this before:
However, everything has a flip-side, and I can think of at least one real life acquaintance who has openly said that he would like to remove the “nuclear” aspect from the word “racist” for a different reason: He isn’t looking to remove the radioactivity to make room for self-reflection. To the contrary, he is looking to remove the radioactivity because he’s tired of having to pretend to care when somebody calls his ideas racist, or calls some of his preferred politicians racist, or generally brings up race in a way that challenges his ideas . . . So, it is interesting to me that taking away the “nuclear” aspect from the word “racist” would serve the goals of those who want more introspection AND those who want less introspection.
While I do agree that removing the larger stigma from the "racist" label (in regards to specific comments) would help facilitate conversation in certain instances, it could unfortunately also allow some speakers to escape the full brunt of condemnation and avoid dialog altogether. Interesting dilemma.