Hello members of Think Atheist.  I am about to post a comment I made in the 'The black people' discussion.  


It is as follows.  



"It depends on 'how' you criticize a group of people.  


It is a fact that in the USA , the highest %'s of crime is due to Blacks - and generally there is a positive correlation between the population density of blacks in large cities to an increase in crime rate.  


It is also a fact that most inner city schools are a majority Black.  They also have the lowest test scores.  


It is also a fact that most 'hip-hop' and 'rap' music on the market includes a lot of Black people cursing, and talking about doing drugs in their cars, killing cops, hittin up dem 'hoes', dropping out of school, etc. 


It is also a fact that there are many Blacks in this country who openly speak out about the Black community and criticize them ... and rightfully so.  


But this is obviously not because they are Black.  It is because of social and economic reasons.  You need to be careful how you analyze the situation - to say these symptoms are because they are 'Black' is just disgustingly ignorant.  But the fact does remain that blacks are a problem in the USA communities.  


My uneducated reason for this - is because after slavery was abolished - Black people were still either feared / hated / put down / segregated , etc ... and only in the past few decades have they started to be accepted as 'human beings' by the vast majority of whites.  


But I will say publically that they are not doing their job as a group in our country to better themselves and to make great lives for their children.  Many are too busy putting down education - getting involved in drugs - getting young teen women pregnant (or getting themselves pregnant) - and paying too much attention to popular black media that makes millions of dollars every year keeping blacks in their same positions.  


It's not cool to impregnate - be a drug dealer - talk about killing cops - breaking the law - poppin bottles in da ice like a blizzard - or using extremely vulgar language - or using a form of music lyric ebonix.  


With all that said, if evidence was put forth that white populations were in fact less intelligent - this would easily be accepted.  If it points to Blacks - riots would occur.  I personally believe that Black people as a race are stronger - bigger - more athletic compared to their white / asian counterparts.  This is easily observed.  


Why can't the IQ or intelligence also be relative?  I'm not saying it's true - I'm just saying it's a possibility - as I assume intelligence is part of the genes.  As is your height - weight - etc.  


Fire away at me - I'm sure most of you who criticize my post will have misread it thinking I'm being racist - when in fact I'm not.  


Ok, so my question is - does this comment of mine exhibit racism?

I would honestly like to know your opinions.

Just as Atheists say they are 'open' to evidence that Gods exist - so I am 100% open to discovering a certain racial group may have increased or decreased intelligence. I in no way was saying anything remotely close to implying Black people are less intelligent as a 'race'. If my comment implied this, I apologize. But I don't think it does.

I am only posting this because I believe I am being unjustly flamed by another forum member. I did not result to name calling , or flaming in any such way. I expressed an opinion , however 'racist' that opinion may be, I leave it up to the reader. But even so, I don't believe it justifies the response given by said forum member. I also apologize if posting a new discussion is improper forum etiquette , as the other discussion is a bit confusing to read, with the other poster and myself flaming / defending each others posts.

Thanks again.

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Honestly I just think its opinion based on statistics, and you don't truly come across as a racist.
What statistics was the opinion based on?  I may be slow, please help me catch up here.
You know what really sucks... Canada's right wing Bush sucking government has now removed the long census from our annual tax reports, which means our government will no longer even be able to publish such great data... sigh

Your comments aren't racist, but they ARE ignorant.


Everything you describe is caused by POVERTY, not race.  Impoverished white people behave in the same ways.  Blacks make up a much larger percentage of the lower economic classes, which is why it LOOKS like it's a race thing.  It's not.  Higher crime rates and such are caused by poverty, not race.

I said in my first post that these are all due to SOCIO - ECONOMIC issues.  People seem to have missed that.  



I said in my first post that these are all due to SOCIO - ECONOMIC issues. People seem to have missed that.

You keep coming back to this...

If it's a socio-economic issue, then why are you even mentioning race and genetics? I'm failing to see what link you are attempting to make when you then virulently deny any link when people respond to the genetic and racial elements of your posts.

"Just as Atheists say they are 'open' to evidence that Gods exist - so I am 100% open to discovering a certain racial group may have increased or decreased intelligence."

Atheists typically don't frame points this way because they usually know better, but that's just a generalization.

I am open to the idea.  Being open minded is now 'racist'?  ;P



You have to remember that racism is still alive and well out there.  Racists can no longer speak openly about their thoughts, so they speak in "code".  You have, perhaps inadvertently, used one of their code phrases.


I am a big fan of objective facts, too, but IQ tests really don't qualify.  Too often the tests use education as a proxy for intelligence, and a person's education is highly effected by the environment in which he or she grew up--including the education and economic circumstances of one's parents, the schools one attended, one's classmates' abilities and attitudes, one's own psychological state, etc.  All of these things can be and usually are negatively effected by racism  and the history of racism in our society.


Those who are concerned about these problems want to create an environment which nullifies these many negative factors.  This process will take generations.  In the meantime, it is important for us all to be aware of the unspoken rules of the political situation.  This can be hard, because  the rules are almost always unspoken.  A big clue, however, is when people seem to overreact to what you say.  Whenever this happens, then you can bet that you accidentally used words or phrases (or sometimes just ideas or implications) that seem to those listening to be code words for something you didn't really intend to say.  Don't try to defend it or yourself.  Just say:  "Oh, I didn't mean anything like that" and drop it.

Too often the tests use education as a proxy for intelligence

Ahh, I actually didn't consider that point. So even if IQ tests did sort of establish that asians are more intelligent than whites - perhaps it has to do with them being very strict about Education.

Great post, thanks.

Forgive me for little nitpicking, and as a francophone I try not to do this in English... but you and Jon and Reggie (3 people in one topic is a bit much) are all using effect and affect interchangeably and erroneously, and it's driving me a little nuts.

                     is highly effected by the

Please read this: http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/affect-versus-effect.aspx

Typos happen--especially early in the morning.  Life's a bitch, ain't it?


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