Hello members of Think Atheist.  I am about to post a comment I made in the 'The black people' discussion.  


It is as follows.  



"It depends on 'how' you criticize a group of people.  


It is a fact that in the USA , the highest %'s of crime is due to Blacks - and generally there is a positive correlation between the population density of blacks in large cities to an increase in crime rate.  


It is also a fact that most inner city schools are a majority Black.  They also have the lowest test scores.  


It is also a fact that most 'hip-hop' and 'rap' music on the market includes a lot of Black people cursing, and talking about doing drugs in their cars, killing cops, hittin up dem 'hoes', dropping out of school, etc. 


It is also a fact that there are many Blacks in this country who openly speak out about the Black community and criticize them ... and rightfully so.  


But this is obviously not because they are Black.  It is because of social and economic reasons.  You need to be careful how you analyze the situation - to say these symptoms are because they are 'Black' is just disgustingly ignorant.  But the fact does remain that blacks are a problem in the USA communities.  


My uneducated reason for this - is because after slavery was abolished - Black people were still either feared / hated / put down / segregated , etc ... and only in the past few decades have they started to be accepted as 'human beings' by the vast majority of whites.  


But I will say publically that they are not doing their job as a group in our country to better themselves and to make great lives for their children.  Many are too busy putting down education - getting involved in drugs - getting young teen women pregnant (or getting themselves pregnant) - and paying too much attention to popular black media that makes millions of dollars every year keeping blacks in their same positions.  


It's not cool to impregnate - be a drug dealer - talk about killing cops - breaking the law - poppin bottles in da ice like a blizzard - or using extremely vulgar language - or using a form of music lyric ebonix.  


With all that said, if evidence was put forth that white populations were in fact less intelligent - this would easily be accepted.  If it points to Blacks - riots would occur.  I personally believe that Black people as a race are stronger - bigger - more athletic compared to their white / asian counterparts.  This is easily observed.  


Why can't the IQ or intelligence also be relative?  I'm not saying it's true - I'm just saying it's a possibility - as I assume intelligence is part of the genes.  As is your height - weight - etc.  


Fire away at me - I'm sure most of you who criticize my post will have misread it thinking I'm being racist - when in fact I'm not.  


Ok, so my question is - does this comment of mine exhibit racism?

I would honestly like to know your opinions.

Just as Atheists say they are 'open' to evidence that Gods exist - so I am 100% open to discovering a certain racial group may have increased or decreased intelligence. I in no way was saying anything remotely close to implying Black people are less intelligent as a 'race'. If my comment implied this, I apologize. But I don't think it does.

I am only posting this because I believe I am being unjustly flamed by another forum member. I did not result to name calling , or flaming in any such way. I expressed an opinion , however 'racist' that opinion may be, I leave it up to the reader. But even so, I don't believe it justifies the response given by said forum member. I also apologize if posting a new discussion is improper forum etiquette , as the other discussion is a bit confusing to read, with the other poster and myself flaming / defending each others posts.

Thanks again.

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I think racism is a word used far too carelessly these days. like "terrorism." words used carelessly ultimately loose all meaning.
critisizing a race is just dumb. we are all human, and had any of us been born in a different culture we would have acted accordingly.
therefore, i believe that judging cultures is a legitimate point. some cultures in my view are better than others.
some cultures promote work ethic, personal responsibility, rationalism, love of learning - while others glorify power, violence, hedonism, addiction...
some cultures view the ideal a person should make of himself as a doctor or a lawyer, others- to be a gangst-rapper. some cultures direct women towards being career women, while others make it clear to them they should aspire to get married as soon as they can bear children and be a stay at home mom.
dan dennett and richard dawkins say the same when they talk about toxic memes.
non of these have to do with race. the gangsta rap example i gave could easily be applied to a white guy who chose that specific culture as a model of aspiration.
if that's what you meant- then we're in agreement.
however, when you suddenly start talking about the IQ of african americans as a genetic quality, you're:
1. making a racist statement
2. making a completely irrelevent statement.
humanity as a whole falls into a bell curve- some smart people at one end, some really dumb ones at the other, and a whole lot of average people in the middle.
thus, to say as a whole that one population is "genetically" smarter than the other is pointless. i can assure you that even if the smartest white guy has an IQ two points higher than the smartest black guy, there is certainly no lack of black people way smarter than you and I.
just as the best athlete might be black- but that's completey irrelevent in the general population, where you'll find plenty of white guys in better shape than the average black guy.

And yet people march around spouting that 'Jews' are more 'intelligent' because they win more Nobels than anyone else? And THAT's ok???


I'm an anti-racist, and spent the last 10 years of my life defending black people in the face of my racist yacht captains... yet... yet... when choosing a cashier among a large group of cashiers, if I'm in a time crunch, I may head for the caucasian one.


I have grown accustomed to a black 'business culture' which is much more layed back than caucasian business culture. I usually prefer the black 'business culture' because often, it places friendships and pleasure before performance and profit, and I agree with THAT.


Cultural differences, no matter their cause, exist... and behaving in accordance with these cultural stereotypical differences, even tho everyone is NOT the same, does not make someone a racist.


No more than when I say I am completely against the very existence of Israel, that in no way implies anything about what I think of Jews as individuals. Yet I've often been called anti-semite due to my views on Israel...


Racism and antisemitism are indeed words that are often wrongly applied and misused.


I love Hip Hop and RnB... and ebonics DOES grow on you when you're immersed in it...

ebonics butchers the English language, and I think if you like the kind of rap music that only talks about sex, alcohol and "thug life" then there isn't much to argue with.


I do however enjoy rap music that has to do with political or other insightful issues.

Notice I spoke of Hip Hop and RnB, whereas you spoke of rap...


USA English butchers British English, Haitian French butchers France French, Afrikaans probably butchers Dutch, Brazilian portuguese butchers Portuguese Portuguese and Cubans butcher Castillano Spanish.


When a caucasian educated, caucasian raised, North American butchers the language, that's a whole other affair. Ebonics is not a USA 'thing'. The patois is present in different forms all over the Caribbean and Africa and is a natural result of the mixing of different linguistic patterns.

give me a distinct difference of hip hop and rap please, I've never been one to pay attention to labels.


i suppose "Izzle" is completely fine then?

see..what I gather from that article is that hip hop is the genre which consists of rapping. and since the lyrics of hip hop were what i was talking about, i dont think you proved you're point very well. hip hop has rap in it.
you misread, rap is but a small part of hip hop, my liking of hip hop excludes rap, generally.

sorry, but i still dont see very much of a difference. hip hop seems to be the culture..rap seems to be the music. either way, it seems to go hand in hand.


the attitudes are the same in my opinion.

I get the misunderstanding, my point of view might help clear it up:


Rap is a skill, something you do

Hiphop is a culture, mindset


'Gansgta rap' is akin to hiphop, cultural.


Gangsters express their street life through rapping. One could argue it's a form of hiphop, but hiphop is associated more with verbal word play, disdain for materialism and the facade of the music industry.

i suppose that it's generally referred to as living a vilont life style because of a connection with a gang, or perhaps maybe just because a situation calles for a violent attutude. point is, there are several rap/hip hop/whatever you want to call it because i dont see a difference - songs that makes it sounds like a good thing.

I can respect poetry, prose and speech..in fact a write music often..just of a different genre.

like i said, im not into the culture so i dont know much about it. I'm not a fan of hip hop so you can see why i am both not very intersted or knowledable on the subject.

I hope we can at least agree that a lot of the music out there today is influencing disillusion people to get involved in certain activities or take certain attitudes that are not helping their social status.


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