I have a friend who is agnostic. He is pretty peeved with me right now because he believes i'm arrogant. He says im a hypocrite because my certainty that there is no "God" is the same as being religious. But I truly feel certain despite not being able to prove it. I'd bet my life on it. (now when I say God I mean the traditional sense of the word, christian god, judaism, etc..)

I feel it is not a fair comparison because I base my beliefs on observations of the universe and nature and the fact that religion seems to be an exceedingly growing pocket of ignorance where information comes from an ancient text written by our more primitive ancestors. Obviously that argument only makes him think i'm even more arrogant.

How can I get through?

I showed him this.. but being that DeGrasse isn't even an atheist doesn't help much.. however it is a similar debate..


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I tried the flying spaghetti monster argument on him. He simply denies the argument holds any weight in this context. I simply do not understand his reasoning there and he offered no valid answers. This statement makes him seem to be very unopen minded and closed off. However, in most cases I find him not to be this way at all. He truly strikes me as a person trying to come to grips with religion and atheism.

My best advice... don't push too hard. Give him time.

Totally, there are varying degrees of certainty at times it seems nothing can be certain but in order to have any progress in anything in life we need to make decisions sometimes. If I want to ever eat I have to decide what it is I want to eat and then eat it. Otherwise I will die.

He did say to me one time.. I like to think there is something more after death. I promptly replied.."Did you hear what you just said? You LIKE to think that."

I am 100% with that.

especially this line "I find it harder and harder to care as time goes on"

I'm getting grumpier and less tolerant of GOD reference as I get older.

Possibly more so since finding other atheists on the internet.

The more I read the more atheist I get

For a long long loonnngg time I truly thought I was alone in my disbelief.

Maybe you could tell him "If there was a God, child abuse would not happen.", or something along those lines. Then the worst he could accuse you of is being naive instead of arrogant. Not that it is naive but I'm just trying to put myself in your friend's frame of mind.

I like this one:

If there is no 'God', it is rather true that such a fact does not stop you from believing.

If there is a 'God', why should you be worried, that fact becomes 'my problem'.

Either way, ignorance might be bliss, atleast for a while...;p)

I try to avoid this by saying I don't believe there is a god instead of asserting that there is no god.  This is easy because it is true for me.  People still find offence with it though.  It goes back to that quote that is attributed to Abraham Lincoln: You can please all of the people some of the time and some of the people all of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.  Maybe he just gets to think you're arrogant. Ironically, it would be an un-arrogant thing to do.

When someone believes me arrogant, my usual response is "okay." Should it be correctly pointed out I am hypocritical, I apologize and make the necessary adjustment. I have no qualm with being arrogant if incorrectly accused as hypocritical. I too am certain there is no god, and do not care if others perceive my conclusion as arrogant. I stand on my own; I fall on my own.

How are you any more arrogant than he?

I am an agnostic atheist, meaning that I'm an atheist but not one whose mind couldn't possibly ever be changed. I just can't conceive how.

I don't think there's any doubt that agnosticism is a far more defensible position than atheism, though one can be an atheist and still be agnostic. They aren't mutually exclusive unless one's atheism is, like a religious view, beyond being reconsidered.

No, you are not a hypocrite.  Your friend has simply been taken in by an old trick that the religious try to use to avoid admitting that they have the burden of proof (and haven't met it).  Read this essay for more:

Solipsism and Agnosticism

an old trick that the religious try to use to avoid admitting that they have the burden of proof

This. /thread


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