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Last night was one of those nights. Getting into a touchy subject. Abortion. I was asked if I would ever have an abortion. I don't know if others think the way I think but here was my response:

No I wouldn't just have an abortion. If I was told I was certainly going to die then yes I would. Why? Because I couldn't leave my three soon to be 4 children without a mother. Call it what you will.

My thoughts on abortion:

You go out, have sex, get pregnant because you are too stupid to use protection, then NO you are not entitled to get one. Tough shit, suck it up and grow up. I don't think an innocent child should die because you wanted to get your rocks off without being an adult and protecting yourself.

Now the other side the fence. I don't think a woman that was raped should have to carry that child. If a man rapes a woman and she gets pregnant I think she should have that choice. So many women get raped and they resent that child. Why should she sacrifice her body for this man that took what he wanted? If a woman was told this baby will kill you I think she should have that choice especially if she has other children.

During a protest outside an abortion clinic in New Orleans in 2004 that I just so happen to walk by. I saw these men and women holding signs calling these women baby killers. Now I got on the defensive because these people didn't know their story on WHY they were getting an abortion.

I calmly walked up to the men and asked them, "What gives you any right to hold a sign when you aren't the one sacrificing your body, time, health, energy?" What gives a man any right to say what a woman should and should not do to their bodies. The woman gives her whole body to this child. What does the man do, gets an orgasm. They don't go though the pain, morning sickness, labor, child birth.

Anyways, they ended up leaving and the women followed them. If it wasn't for a woman nobody would be here. Just food for thought there. So in conclusion. What are your thoughts about abortion?

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If a woman gets pregnant because she or he fails to protect there is always adoption.

Have you any idea how much 9 months can disrupt your plans for the future? There are some opportunities that will not wait for you to have a child and put it up for adoption. Some women are career oriented, and not family oriented.

We have reached a point in our evolution where reproduction by every last member of the species is not required for the survival of the species. At 7 billion people, it's probably time to cross that "go forth and multiply" thing off the to do list. Maybe we can get on to that "Love thy neighbor" thing now.

Well said.

You have made a judgment or you wouldn't have made the original post. You can judge by acting as a judge or by making a negative judgment about someone's behavior.

I say what I have to say and continue to support.

This is laudable. I wish everyone would be aware of their judgments of others, yet carry on their support of others.

I think your thoughts are good ones.

Too often the abortion debate becomes a polarized thing between individual rights and rights to life, rather than a compassionate thing about caring for young and old, both.  Ultimately people do have a choice.  Even if abortion is illegal they still have a choice, though it's riskier.  The real question should be how we with understanding and compassion help people faced with hard choices.

I suspect most of us would oppose abortion for the sake of gender or phenotype selection, of just not wanting to have a girl because boys are somehow "better", or only wanting children with blue eyes.  I suspect most of us would oppose abortion for eugenics reasons as well.  I suspect most of us would also accept abortion to save the life of the mother, or honor the choice of a woman in the case of rape or incest.

So most of us fall between the poles of abortion on demand and abortion never.  The debate doesn't reflect our real mores, or the personally difficult nature of this choice.  Most people are in the middle somewhere, and in the middle are the hard personal struggles with values and ethics that make us human.

Now as a man, I think I should have some say if the child is my own, and our activity was consensual.  I think two people choosing to have sex are choosing to be open to the possibility of pregnancy.  Even when using "protection", we know that is still a non-zero risk, and choose to incur it.  I don't think my opinion should be dispositive, but I do think I have a right (and an obligation) to be included in the decision.  A woman cutting a willing partner out of that decision seems as wrong to me as a man cutting and running and leaving the woman alone with the decision.

You are correct. Having a child is a mutual decision. I don't think it would be right for the woman to say oh well i'm aborting if the father of the child is willing to take on full responsibility.

But this is your opnion, and when opinions are involved then right and wrong go out the window. By that I mean actual right and wrong. To speak of right and wrong and opinion in the same breath is an oxymoron.

Now as a man, I think I should have some say if the child is my own, and our activity was consensual.

As a husband, I had no desire to put my wife through another pregnancy, if she considered it too much of a hardship. And certainly, law should not intervene. (I mention law because I wouldn't put it past some lawmakers to attempt such intervention.) I'd rather adopt, if I wanted a child that badly.

I don't think an innocent child should die

That's the terminology that right-to-lifers use. It's not really a child, not at least until it has a human brain with activity. Until that point, it has just about as much in common with a salamander as it does with a human child.

Anyone who really believes that it's the death of a child at stake should be even more concerned with the many more fetuses and fertilized eggs that die naturally.

So people can hold various opinions about how laws should govern fetal rights, and I think it's okay to leave a lot of that up to the states. The states also define end-of-life for humans, e.g. with technical definitions of lack of brain activity. I think states should consider applying those same end-of-life definitions to beginning-of-life decisions.

I abhor abortion, but I think women need to have access to it anyway.  I became pregnant with my oldest child when the protection I was using failed.  I was in the 1% or whatever percentage it is that get pregnant while using that particular kind of protection.  Also, I am allergic to or cannot tolerate the other forms of birth control available, (and yes, I tried them).  I agree that, even though I was contraceptively challenged, I could have chosen to not be pregnant, just by being abstinent. My other two offspring are evidence that I didn't choose to go that way. 

As much as I think abortion is awful, I think that people who do not have the resources, either emotionally and/or financially, to care for the child, may be showing some good judgment by having an abortion no matter how the woman became pregnant.  Yes, there is always adoption, but I don't think a woman should be forced to carry a baby to term in a world that is overpopulated and, for millions on the planet, brutally cruel. 

That being said, I could not have had an abortion in the circumstances under which any of my children were conceived.  However, had I known then what at least one of my children was going to have to deal with in life, I would not have had any children at all.  Life doesn't work backwards, though. 

I think that the example of the woman who has had seven abortions shows a woman with something seriously out of whack.  My guess is that there is some benefit to society for some people, possibly like her, to self-select out of parenthood.  Whether this is right or not is irrelevant to me - I think she still should have the right, as sad as it is, to have an abortion. 

Conratulations, You just explained the pro choice end of the argument. It's about the woman's choice. Nobody wants an abortion, but sometimes it's the lesser of two evils. I share your opinion for the most part, but I also believe that if a woman get's pregnant from simple ignorance(i.e. never being told about birth control/condoms etc.) Then her life shouldn't be derailed by an unexpected pregnancy. some women want to get a college degree, an established life, etc. before having a family. I don't believe the highschool girl who was talked into it by young Casanova should have to deal with it either.

If it wasn't for a woman nobody would be here.

Careful now. Reproduction in a binary species like Homo Sapiens is a two way street. It takes both a man and a woman to make a child, even though admittedly the woman does most of the work. Family is a team effort. If your man isn't willing to help with the children, then he doesn't deserve to be a father, either.

Personally, I feel having an abortion is a choice that needs to be made by the woman considering it. But I do not support having an abortion!!! If you are bold enough to have unprotected sex, you should be bold enough to hande being a mother (or father), but if you used protection but it didn't work out as planned, then you just have to own up to the responsibility. On the other hand if it was rape, that has to be a choice by the mother with the support of people around (though, rape or not, all mothers need support of people around them). Having a baby, I want to believe, is a thing of joy. If you don't have the joy, FIND IT!!! Innocent babies shouldn't be put through the stress because of our mistakes or not!!! Its life, cherish it!
Considering that when an abortion is done there is no baby, so, no stress to put one through.
It would be much worse to have an unwanted baby.

It seems that a lot of anti-abortion folks are "pro-life" until it is born, after that, meh, fuck 'em.


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