The point of this discussion is to get people’s perspective on abortion. Why people do it. And why people are against it.
From Catholic.org I found a video on abortion, but it didn’t look like the normal procedures performed in the United States. It looks like they purposely chose the worst pictures possible to convince Christians that abortion is wrong. Where did they get such graphic material?
Video Link: http://www.catholic.org/video/watch.php?v=13
A legal abortion in the United States looks more like this: http://www.thisismyabortion.com
I believe if you get pregnant by accident that you should keep it. But if you are forced (rape) (incest) then it definitely changes things. How can we force her to bring a rapist’s baby to term? I also heard that giving birth to a rapist’s baby is like being raped all over again.
I think that making abortion illegal is wrong. This takes away women’s rights. I believe women should choose, but I think it’s recommended that women take counseling before taking any action.
This is my opinion, but I would like to know others point of view on the subject.
I got two questions for you:
Like someone before me, I will start out saying I am male. I cannot know the internal struggle that is the decision of whether or not to keep a child, and don't pretend to.
That being said, I am Pro-Choice. I believe it is a woman's right to choose whether or not to keep her offspring. The birth of a child is a life changing event. Even if given up for adoption right away, it is still a life changing event. I believe a woman should absolutely be allowed to abort if:
- She is the victim of rape
- Her health will be harmed by giving birth to the child
- The baby will have a serious disease/illness
Now, if a woman gets pregnant without trying to, an "accident", I think morally, the right thing to do would be to own up to your mistake and birth the baby, and either raise it or give it up for adoption if she could not support the child. However, I would not force my personal ideology on said woman. I may disagree with her choice, but ultimately, it is her choice, not mine.
I see that in your last paragraph there was no mention of the male who fathered the child. The law tends to say otherwise. That the father has at least a financial responsibility.
That said, in terms of making something happen—in this case, preventing unwanted pregnancies—I think that ("It takes two to tango" aside) it's best that it be someone's individual responsibility to make sure that pregnancies don't happen. As the one who gets the big tummy, stretch marks, and has to endure childbirth, it makes more sense that it be the female's responsibility.
Now, as for the male, if he doesn't want the financial impact of supporting an unplanned for child with a woman he may only view as a sexual playmate, one would think that out of stark self-interest he'd be making sure to be using a condom or that she has taken care of that aspect on her own (the pill, the patch, an IUD).
Of course, having had an unplanned for child who I raised and love deeply, I know that when it comes to sex, passion often rules rather than reason.
Why is this still an issue. Can we, as atheists, just once say "case closed" an move onto other things? Why does this abortion babble never end. This is like discussing gravity. "Are you pro-gravity or anti-gravity?"
By progressing this abortion thing further you turn it into an "issue", and by that you only aid the theists. It's not an issue.
Woman's body. Woman's right. Case closed. No ifs or buts, no nothing. No. Her body, her right. Rape, whatever. Doesn't matter. It's her womb, and therefore her right to evacuate it of squatters. Damn people, this is not hard. It's over, move on.
sounds like dogmatism to me.
Case closed based on what?
Based on common fucking sense. Did you skip the whole "Her body her right" part? Does gravity sound like dogmatism to you? Then neither should a womans right to her own body.
Common sense is only common if it's common.
Look at the other posts. People don't agree on this, therefore you can't just argue from 'common sense'. That's what the word 'common' means. You have it in common.
Because people like to babble, even more so the people here. Hang around for a week or so and eventually you'll notice that the same discussions pop up every now and then, like a cycle. There's nothing to argue about "you own your body." That is common sense. If you think otherwise, I want you to stab out your left eye. Don't want to? Tough, I want you to. So whose will has priority here? Your will to keep your eye, or mine to stab it out?
Common sense says "are you fucking retarded? I'm not going to stab my eye out because you want me to"
Similarly, common sense says "are you fucking retarded? I'm not going to have a parasite grow inside of my stomach just because you want me to."
Your body, which is yours, is governed by YOU. How can anybody argue about that?!
Intelligent people discuss things that don't affect them directly but interest them on an ethical level. I'm not fighting in Afghanistan, none of my circle of relatives are, none of my friends are. I don't even know of any acquaintances that are fighting or know anyone who is fighting. I don't think that means I shouldn't have an opinion on it.
If your reply is that my tax dollars are going toward the war, making it an issue I'm concerned with, great. Tax dollars get involved in various ways in many abortion decisions as well, if only obliquely. Some abortions become tax deductions. Some are paid for by Medicare or other programs directly or indirectly receiving tax dollars.
I, too, don't think any individual instance is my business, but as a matter of policy, I'm a citizen and that should at least allow me, a male, to have and express an opinion.
Okay, question. I have just been reading the "C.S. Lewis BS" blog. I have been thinking about natural selection. I am not an atheist, just very discouraged with the different worldviews I have been given. I came here hoping for something different. But so far, you who declare yourself atheists seem to argue the same way everybody else does.
I would like to understand the assumptions that underlie the statements some of you have written. If the fetus is just a blob of cells until it becomes sentient, does that mean I am just a blob of cells that is sentient? And if so, what does that even mean? What is sentience?
I am asking for myself personally, is there anything in atheism to give value to my life as a woman? If I am just a product of natural selection anyway, an otherwise random arrangement of organic molecules with a DNA that just happens to have been passed on because my ancestors didn't get knocked off, what difference does it make if I have a 'right' to abortion or not? If I abort, I'm not going to pass on my genes in as great numbers, which is the whole point of evolution. So people who don't abort are eventually going to be the ones that pass on their genes. So I am just enjoying my life as I do at the moment, but the very fact that I enjoy it in some way OTHER than reproduction shows that I have something in me that should eventually be weeded out by natural selection, because it goes against the survival of my own genes if not the species.
I'm just thinking in terms of ecology. My training is in biology.
Thinking of it further, abortion is a huge factor in genetic viability at this point in the history of the human species. Being 'pro-life' is definitely more genetically viable than being personally 'pro-choice'. Abortion will limit population growth but it will naturally select for those who are 'pro-life'. I looked it up, currently the abortion rate is about one in four. From a genetic standpoint, that's significant by anyone's standards.
Yes, those that should not breed do. Uneducated filthy excuses for human beings who have like 5-10 kids. Disgusting broodmothers spitting out more larva every year with no shame. It's quantity over quality.
That's why to me abortion is the first choice should my girlfriend ever end up pregnant. I'm not setting a kid in this shitty world full of disgusting people. I couldn't care less about natural selection or the future of the human species. I'm going to use this planet like the rent car that it is, enjoy it, and leave nothing behind.
when you rent a car, and you screw it up, you have to pay for it. That's why your comment is quite humorous. You should have picked something for which there is no consequence for screwing it up.
Anyway, your idea of 'quality' is completely subjective. If you think 'quality' is someone like you, who openly admits you don't care about the human race, you should not be surprised there aren't more people with that 'quality'. It's an evolutionary disadvantage to have that attitude. Either you will do yourself in or somebody else will...I'm speaking in an historical sense, not about you personally.