Hi everyone!  I need some rational input here!  


I was arguing for same sex marriage with my family today ... my aunt was with me 100% and my grandmother and other aunt were against me 100% ... then the topic of abortion and unwanted pregnancy came up and before I knew , I had 3 women attacking me and making judgements about me!  I'll explain my beliefs about this topic below.  


Basically , in summary , I stated the following:  If a man and a woman were having sex together and the man always wore a condom and the woman was correctly taking birth control ... and the woman got pregnant ... and decided to have the child instead of have an abortion ... I claimed that the man does not have any moral responsibility to help support this child.  The reasons are below.  


If the woman can't support the child by herself or with the help of her consenting family , then the more mature and rational decision is to have an abortion.  


I claimed that abortion is a huge stigma in society with young females being pressured into having children based off religious reasons ... fear of eternal damnation or fear of having the equivalent of being 'slut shamed' in a different way.  


We both did everything we possibly could to prevent to child from taking place.  Even though we may not have completely stated in a verbal or written contract that we both did not want to have children , the fact she was taking birth control implies to a sufficient degree that she does not want to have a child.  The condom can go either way ... I could just be protecting against possible STD's or infecting her if by chance the male is the one with an STD.  


The woman is the one choosing to have the child.  She should not expect anyone to help take care of it if it's HER choice , just as the man does not have the right to force her to give birth to an unwanted pregnancy if she happens to not want the child.  


So in summary , the man should not be held legally nor morally accountable for choosing to not support the child because of the reasons stated above.  


Also , it appears to me that the argument from the other side is attempting to say the woman has the freedom of choice to give birth or abort , but the man has no freedom of choice and MUST automatically be obligated , both legally and morally , to support the child.  If I am interpreting this correctly , I find this view to be absurd ... as if the woman can decide but the man cannot.   A man who wants the child but the woman not wanting the child seems to me the exact opposite of the same coin , but as mentioned above , the man cannot legally force the woman to bear the child.  Therefore , a man should not be forced to help support a child that he , if he could make it happen ... would want an abortion instead.  


EDITED TO ADD********* 


Correction:  I was just informed that a man does have the legal right to claim a child and have the woman give birth under certain situations ... But this doesn't stop my argument because I don't feel like the man should ever , under any circumstance , have the legal right to dictate whether or not the woman should give birth to the child if she decides she wants an abortion.


END EDIT*****************


Please discuss! Any question or clarification , please inquire!  


(And try not to judge me , this conclusion is not because I want to freely have sex without responsibilities , which to me is an absurd counter to my argument above.)  

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I never said giving birth is the default position. However, it is her body. Not mine. If I got pregnant, it would be my body. The ultimate decision whether to have an abortion or not is hers, not yours. You can have input but disagreeing with her does not absolve you of your role.

Oh , but your dna is in her body!  Why should you not have a say in whether or not she should get an abortion, BUT you agree it is still my responsibility to help finance the child when she decides to have the child?  


I still hold that an abortion is always an option.  Until it isn't , the responsibility is not on me to help with the child , but on her IF she makes the decision to have it.  


If abortion becomes illegal ... then that changes things.  I will then know , going in (pun intended) , that abortion is not an option , which changes the potential end scenario ... that being , a child will be born.  

The fact that the abortion would become illegal does not really change the morality of your actions.
I am not certain what you mean by this. I stated that I would assist with the child if abortions were made illegal, because it's a known risk and I cannot reasonably expect the woman to break the law in order to have the abortion.


I actually didn't state directly I would assist with the child. But in that case, I would.

If abortions are legal , I don't consider having the child a potential 'risk' because it's not like the child is a necessary outcome of conception.
Are you suggesting that abortion is immoral?
No, but walking out on the child is.
But I'm trying to give an argument why this is not so!

If you want all of the sex with none of the consequences, get a vasectomy, use condoms, pull out, and don't stick your dick in crazy.


Problem solved, amirite?



Do I have to use condoms if I get a vasectomy?  :(  

Well, if I chose one of the three options you would have replied that pulling out doesn't always work, condoms break, and even vasectomies aren't 100% so I recommend the combo. It's as close as you're going to get to a fullproof preemptive strike against accidents with women who don't share your mindset since you don't intend on having a detailed conversation about this with potential sexual partners because it might ruin the mood.

But even in a commited relationship, where you HAVE discussed this issue and decided as an equal partnership that any accidental children would be aborted, if the woman changes her mind, the man gets no say whatsoever.


This issue doesn't only concern guys screwing crazy women....it is equally applicable to people in relationships.

"This issue doesn't only concern guys screwing crazy women....it is equally applicable to people in relationships"

Matt yes that is the case.


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