In this discussion I would like to talk about abortion. It is always something I have felt very strong about and would argue to the ends of the earth on. I have always been Pro-Life, always. Ever since I became an Atheist, this topic keeps popping up in my head. Since it is something I have not wanted to confront, I have been pushing it to the back burner. Now that I have given it some thought I would like to tell you where I used to stand and where I stand now. When I was a Christian my thought process was "Abortion is Never the right choice unless the mother and child will both die." So even if the child were to survive and the mother dies, abortion is still not the right choice. Some might even consider that murder, I guess. To answer this question I'm sure someone will ask, Yes I would have and still would give up my life for my child. Well, now I'm sort of seeing things a bit different. If a female gets raped and gets pregnant from it, abortion is ok, (sad all the way around - for everyone).  If a woman chooses to abort a baby due to the risk to the mothers life, Ok. If the baby will have a very very very difficult life and in turn make the parents have an equally difficult life, ok. To me abortion is a horrible thing, if someone wants to have an abortion just because oops I got preggo. That is horrible. If you don't want kids do everything in your power to NOT get pregnant. Simple as that. Life is a beautiful an precious thing, and yes I do believe it is special.  Any and All comments are welcome :)

Tags: abortion, pro-choice, pro-life

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Yep, human life above all else, it's the Christian/Humanist way! woo hoo.:(
If you are procreating, YOU are directly responsible for the demise of all other life forms on Earth. Yeah you.

so you value other life forms more than your own life, more than the life within your own race and species? 

alrighty then...

I realise you haven't questioned the dogmas that place humans above all else, a Christian dogma. Myself, having never belonged to any religion, never developed that dogma, I stated I prefer being equal in value rather than above all else. You're stating "more than your own life" is not at all the same as what I'm saying, Balance with other species and ecosystem.

Christianity aside, i'm pretty sure it's natural for most human beings to naturally favour their own species.  If you consider humans equal to animals then i guess abortion is no big deal, murder no different than killing animals, slavery would be just fine, torture, abuse, etc...

Not to say that we should treat animals in this way, but there is a vast gap in the intelligence and potential of animals and humans.  Are you not in favour of human intellectual advancement, technological advancement?  If you are then you are immediately biased towards your own species because no other animal is going to make this same progress. 

You want to talk about equality? Fine, lets start with equality within the human race.  Im not referring to voting rights or anti slavery although that's part of it, but the extreme difference in wealth and possesion between people around the world.  what am i suggesting, communism?  maybe not, but then again maybe it's what you are suggesting.  It's either that or every man for himself which is hardly an option. 

How about this, if you're so deeply concerned with overpopulation, and contraceptives dont work 100%, and the viewpoints on abortion are so different, maybe, just maybe, the solution is: Don't fuck around!


Thank you, you are so enlightening. Death is normal, death is natural, death is even often desirable, you lifers are really depressing me.

When's enough? IMO we're way past enough. If it means anything at all that we have a large brain to body mass ratio, it should be the ability to recognise and deal with the fact that we've caused problems, otherwise our brains are useless.
We have more medicated humans than ever, more obese humans than ever in history, more depressed humans than ever in history, religioisty planet-wide isn't much changed, obviously we're doing something wrong.

What we're doing wrong is perpetuating the CHRISTIAN dogma of dominion over nature. It's time to let go of dogmas.

...oops I got preggo. That is horrible. If you don't want kids do everything in your power to NOT get pregnant

A friend of mine had a bit of an oops situation. She worked at a supermarket (i.e. can't really support a family on her own) and ended up having an affair with a married man. She has one ovary with cysts (the other had been removed due to cysts), was on the pill, and used a condom and she got pregnant. If I was in her situation I'm not sure if I would abort the baby because I couldn't afford to support it without becoming a cliched welfare mum, or if I would keep it because it's probably the only chance she will get.

Simple as that

Is it? really? I'm pro-choice because the life or death of someone elses unborn child is NEVER that simple.

it is if you dont fuck around :P


People who don't fuck generally lack intimacy in their life which is a common cause for a horrible life... you know the expression, "you need to get laid", it's good for us, babies often aren't.

wow, the main thing I am learning that I am a complete wuss! Humanists some of you are not. What about a catch, neuter and release program for boys in schools like they do with cats? That would prevent a ton of abortions. When the pandemic bird flu comes around maybe the population will be decimated enough that fertile types can have hetero sex again. Until then, maybe we should just all become gay. Or abstinent. If you really hate humanity do you stay childless as well. Or do you just want that for icky people.

I dont' get the impression that anyone is hating on humanity, but reality is often much harsher than human ideals.


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