In this discussion I would like to talk about abortion. It is always something I have felt very strong about and would argue to the ends of the earth on. I have always been Pro-Life, always. Ever since I became an Atheist, this topic keeps popping up in my head. Since it is something I have not wanted to confront, I have been pushing it to the back burner. Now that I have given it some thought I would like to tell you where I used to stand and where I stand now. When I was a Christian my thought process was "Abortion is Never the right choice unless the mother and child will both die." So even if the child were to survive and the mother dies, abortion is still not the right choice. Some might even consider that murder, I guess. To answer this question I'm sure someone will ask, Yes I would have and still would give up my life for my child. Well, now I'm sort of seeing things a bit different. If a female gets raped and gets pregnant from it, abortion is ok, (sad all the way around - for everyone).  If a woman chooses to abort a baby due to the risk to the mothers life, Ok. If the baby will have a very very very difficult life and in turn make the parents have an equally difficult life, ok. To me abortion is a horrible thing, if someone wants to have an abortion just because oops I got preggo. That is horrible. If you don't want kids do everything in your power to NOT get pregnant. Simple as that. Life is a beautiful an precious thing, and yes I do believe it is special.  Any and All comments are welcome :)

Tags: abortion, pro-choice, pro-life

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Abortions send babies to Jesus faster.
Zing!
Except that they would go to Hell - "original sin" and all that.

I'm just sayin'.
We didn't read the fine print!
I'm not going to comment too much on this link but I think it's interesting reading. I'm sure we all go against our principles at times of weakness but I do think it's horrific that these people can harass other women for doing exactly what they did. Hypocrisy at its worst.

http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html
I feel the need to throw in this information about myself.

Situation #1 - I was about 3 months pregnant with my first child (you know, the Planned one). I was 17 years old and worked at winn dixie. My hubby was, at the time of the incident, in upstate Alabama in a truck drivers training program. I started bleeding (sorry for the gory) and went straight to the E.R. they gave me an ultrasound and told me nothing other than to see my doctor the next day. My regular OB was not in so I saw this very old asshole type doctor. Having never seen him I thought he would be warm and caring (WRONG!) anyways he walked in the room and sourly said "your fetus is dead we have to do a DNC". You can imagine the horror and saddness that went straight through me. I said what do you mean my baby is dead?? he said well you were bleeding and we cant find a heart beat (on the ultrasound the night before). So you will have a DNC today. I told him no that I wanted to wait to talk with my OB and get his opinion. to cut to the chase, I went in the next day knowing I would have a very serious talk with my doctor before anything was done to me or my baby. My doctor used the heartbeat monitor on me and found my child's heartbeat, very strong and sounding perfect. Just to make sure we did another ultrasound and found it with ease. Had I listened to the asshole doctor I would not have my straight A - Helpful - Loving -Funny - caring son that I have today who is now 8 :)

Situation #2 - During every pregnancy the woman has the option to sign papers to have blood tests done on the baby (fetus) to test for problems such as birth defects and such. I of course have always had this done. With my third child (unplanned - I was on birth control), his results came back with him having a 50% chance of trisomy 18. This is where the child has a 70% chance of being still born and if lucky enough to make it to term alive has a very minute chance of living past the age of 1. here is more information you should read before continuing http://rarediseases.about.com/cs/chromosome18/a/050104.htm I was devastated. My doctor, knowing how I had felt about my first child's incident, still had to ask if I was considering abortion. I told him No. He also wanted to know if I wanted to have an amniocentesis to see if he had it for sure or not. Knowing that having an "amnio" done increases the chances of premature labor along with the possibility of them hitting my baby (fetus) with the needle I said no, that I would take my chances. He was born happy and healthy and is today a very bright loving 4 year old.
You know what they call the medical student who finishes last in his graduating class?

Doctor.

They are not infallible. Not by a long shot. And not all have very good "bedside manners".
Joli, my 1st pregnacy which was not planned I was 23 and had been married a month and was living in a college town.

I had some bleeding. Rather severe bleeding after 12 weeks. The old cranky doctor in my case told me I was still pregnant. After 3 more months of being 'pregnant' he sent me for an ultra sound which 30 years ago was rare. They were very nice to me, but wouldn't let me see the pictures or tell me anything.

I didn't know any better at that time.

Two days later the stupid doctor walks in to the room and abruptly announces that my baby is dead and I have been carrying a dead fetus for 3 months. I can't even remember what happened next. My husband said he almost hit the doctor and I was in hysterics.

I left and went home to my regular doctor who performed a d&c and did analysis.

So I believe you. This was serious for me as I have A- blood and the fetus was O+. I had to worry my entire next pregnancy about the Rh factor. I was lucky every thing was fine.

That Dr. Idiot had me carry a dead child for 3 months. After I experienced a full term pregnancy I realized that I should have known that there was something wrong but until you have been through it you don't know.

I don't know what the story has to do with the abortion arguement however.
Anecdotes really do not make an arguement pro or con in my opinion.
thanks RM and I needed a good chuckle :)
I just didn't want to be the only person whom didn't respond to this. :D
There are crap doctors out there but I don't believe that personal stories prove things one way or another except to inform other people where our experiences shape our personal point of view.

The stories may be truthful from a personal point of view but still may not be the whole truth. Seeing where someone is coming from and believing everything that is related are different things.

That is why I am a skeptic and an atheist. POV and memory while emotionally true aren't exactly non-subjective interpretations of events.

Just my take and not trying to insult anyone. I am totally drugged for nasty back pain right now and any insult is totally inadvertant.
The stories may be truthful from a personal point of view but still may not be the whole truth. Seeing where someone is coming from and believing everything that is related are different things.

Amen. I never believe anyone's POV when they relate a story about something. It is not that I think they are lying or that what they say did not really happen, it is just that I realize that one situation can have widely varied points of view depending on who is telling the story, so much so that you might not recognize a particular story as related by just two participants as being the same story if you did not already know.

Some people get offended, say, when they are telling me about how someone else slighted them and I don't confirm their anger by jumping on their bandwagon about how so and so "is a big jerk for doing that". I just don't put much stock in personal anecdotes (or gossip!) until I know facts or hear multiple perspectives. Also, I know how "polluted" our memories of past events can become.

Human beings have proven to be very unreliable witnesses to reality.

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