In this discussion I would like to talk about abortion. It is always something I have felt very strong about and would argue to the ends of the earth on. I have always been Pro-Life, always. Ever since I became an Atheist, this topic keeps popping up in my head. Since it is something I have not wanted to confront, I have been pushing it to the back burner. Now that I have given it some thought I would like to tell you where I used to stand and where I stand now. When I was a Christian my thought process was "Abortion is Never the right choice unless the mother and child will both die." So even if the child were to survive and the mother dies, abortion is still not the right choice. Some might even consider that murder, I guess. To answer this question I'm sure someone will ask, Yes I would have and still would give up my life for my child. Well, now I'm sort of seeing things a bit different. If a female gets raped and gets pregnant from it, abortion is ok, (sad all the way around - for everyone).  If a woman chooses to abort a baby due to the risk to the mothers life, Ok. If the baby will have a very very very difficult life and in turn make the parents have an equally difficult life, ok. To me abortion is a horrible thing, if someone wants to have an abortion just because oops I got preggo. That is horrible. If you don't want kids do everything in your power to NOT get pregnant. Simple as that. Life is a beautiful an precious thing, and yes I do believe it is special.  Any and All comments are welcome :)

Tags: abortion, pro-choice, pro-life

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@Cathleen It was my husband I was parapharsing. As a father of daughters and grand-daughters, he said men have no right to say anything about how a woman manages her body.

Well, THAT I agree with. Excuse my indignation.

@Joli LOL I can't help but laugh out loud at this - RM "If I got Joli pregnant..." and Reggie - "if she wanted to talk about how you got her pregnant,..." sorry guys, it just sounds funny LOL

I think it was a bit Freudian that RM used that specific example. I don't know for sure, but..

@RM The male has no right under the law to speak to her about the pregnancy. I was speaking to that. " the male in the realtionship with a woman who wants to have an abortion (IMO) should have some type of say so"Men have zero say so as to whether the baby comes to term and no first amendment right to speak to the mother about the pregnancy.

I agree with that, except I don't quite know what you mean in the last sentence. He can't speak to her about the pregnancy? Well, sure he can. He can even tell her what to do. She just doesn't have to listen to him or do his bidding. Right? Or am I still missing something?
I, of course, meant becomes a person. A full term foetus is no less sentient than a newly born baby but a newly born baby has all the basic rights of any other human being.

Why would a full term foetus be denied them?

A newly conceived foetus, of course, doesn't. Society has to decide where that point is.
I agree.

But, newborn babies do not have ALL the rights of an adult person. But, the important ones are there, so don't mind my nitpicking.
It's ok. I nit-picked an earlier comment of yours. :-)
You rascal!
Yes it is a personal decision. An why should society tell women what to do with their bodies. A foetus is not alive, it is a parasitic growth until it is breathing. I don't believe personally in late term abortion, but it is not my body. And society where most laws are made by men should not decide for me.

And I have had two children whom I CHOSE to have. I have been pregnant and carried for an infant. You have really no idea what that is like.
A foetus is not alive, it is a parasitic growth until it is breathing.

The fetus is most definitely alive and it is parasitic in nature. But, so are toddlers and teenagers!

I think arguing that living cells at any point in the gestation cycle are not "alive" is not a good argument. Perhaps I am nitpicking, but this sanctity of life premise is faulty to begin with, so please don't grant it by denying something is alive when it is.

Now, not being a "person"? I can get on board with that.
No, toddlers and teenagers are not attached to you. Toddlers and teenagers are semi-sentinent life forms that have to be trained.

My cats and my dog are parasites by your definition, but I wouldn't kill them.

A foetus that I do not want it the same as a tumor.
I don't think you get the broader meaning of "parasite" or the meanings behind my posts.
"Yes it is a personal decision. An why should society tell women what to do with their bodies. A foetus is not alive"

I am not defending the religious pro-lifers but If society decides that a foetus is alive and sentient after, say, 5 months, then they have every right to tell you not to "murder" it (that is the word society would use).

Society tells us to do and not do lots of things. We must pay taxes, must not take other people's property, must not kill other people etc...

If you disagree with society then you have every right to oppose it legally.
" why does anyone care what another woman they do not even know or care about does with her own uterus?"

They don't. If someone thinks the foetus is sentient, then they are worried about the right of the foetus as well as the rights of the mother.

If they think it is sentient, can feel pain and could exist as it is (e.g. 8-9 months term) then they believe that the rights of the foetus outweigh the rights of the mother.

The discussion is about when that point is reached. Under most circumstance no-one would dream of telling a woman what to do with her own body. But like all rights, if your rights clash with someone else's, then the law has to step in.
Sperm and eggs only have half the required DNA. I am not sufficiently up on whether that is regarded as alive or not.


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