In this discussion I would like to talk about abortion. It is always something I have felt very strong about and would argue to the ends of the earth on. I have always been Pro-Life, always. Ever since I became an Atheist, this topic keeps popping up in my head. Since it is something I have not wanted to confront, I have been pushing it to the back burner. Now that I have given it some thought I would like to tell you where I used to stand and where I stand now. When I was a Christian my thought process was "Abortion is Never the right choice unless the mother and child will both die." So even if the child were to survive and the mother dies, abortion is still not the right choice. Some might even consider that murder, I guess. To answer this question I'm sure someone will ask, Yes I would have and still would give up my life for my child. Well, now I'm sort of seeing things a bit different. If a female gets raped and gets pregnant from it, abortion is ok, (sad all the way around - for everyone).  If a woman chooses to abort a baby due to the risk to the mothers life, Ok. If the baby will have a very very very difficult life and in turn make the parents have an equally difficult life, ok. To me abortion is a horrible thing, if someone wants to have an abortion just because oops I got preggo. That is horrible. If you don't want kids do everything in your power to NOT get pregnant. Simple as that. Life is a beautiful an precious thing, and yes I do believe it is special.  Any and All comments are welcome :)

Tags: abortion, pro-choice, pro-life

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That statement doesn't belong to me. I copied it just like it was posted by Jean Marie in that topic, with bolding and underlining and everything else.

Woops! Sorry, I misunderstood. But, I'll leave it stand for JM to answer, then. :-)

But regarding abortion that statement is correct... and we should try to come up with a better solution, even if we have some pretty stupid ideas until we reach that Eureka! moment.

So far, the most effective solution has been to allow safe and legal access to abortions and comprehensive sex education to the populace. Why these policies are not implemented or embraced by anti-abortion folk I'll never know, because it reduces abortions more than criminalizing them would.

Sometimes I suspect they don't really care about "babies", they just want to control people and humiliate them for being sexual creatures in some twisted, sexually repressed, sick game.
I can think only about religion and carelessness as reasons why those policies are not embraced...

Abortion may have been the most effective solution so far, but that doesn't mean it should be the ultimate solution.
Abortion may have been the most effective solution so far, but that doesn't mean it should be the ultimate solution.

Legalized abortion AND comprehensive sex ed. They are both required to reduce the amount of abortions performed.
Do you disagree that free sterilization, reversal procedures and free abortions (for medical reasons only) for the women that decided they are finally ready to have a child are a better solution?
It wouldn't be a complete solution. While reversible sterilizations (assuming such was completely effective) would definitely be a benefit, it would not prevent all unwanted pregnancies. I certainly would not support a mandatory sterilization policy, as that imposes on peoples' freedom of choice (I am assuming that the free sterilization would be available to both men and women, likewise the reversal procedures).

Right now, (mostly) risk-free, easily reversible, highly effective sterilization is something to strive for, but we're not quite there yet. Likewise, artificial incubation tubes, where someone who does not want to have a child can transfer the embryo to the device which will then carry it to term (barring viability problems) would be great, once we invent them.
Do you disagree that free sterilization, reversal procedures and free abortions (for medical reasons only) for the women that decided they are finally ready to have a child are a better solution?

No. But to be honest, I don't know much about the procedures. I do know they are not 100 percent effective in either direction. I imagine the costs for reversal are high or at least higher than being sterilized. And I don;t really know how invasive or safe either procedure is.

So, I can't disagree with it outright unless I looked at it more. But, you are then talking about a mass sterilization of adolescents. How would that effect development? So many medical procedures. So many questions that raises! I don't see it as being very practical, maybe not even feasible.

I mean, for an individual, sure. But systematically? Hmm...
I don't agree with "for medical reasons only," period. =)

Those procedures may be free for the individual (in that hypothetical situation), but that doesn't mean time and money aren't spent at all on them. You don't just snap your fingers and you're sterilized.

So if you are sterilized then after a while you want to have a baby, you have to be sure you want to have a baby. So I would not agree with I changed my mind after you get pregnant. So that's why I said for medical reasons only.
Let's say that free sterilizations and all I've said above were mandatory already and we would all be sterilized already. Would you guys have something to say against that?
I was just trying to say that abortion isn't always right or at least shouldn't always be right... And I used your remark on that other topic to remind you that you believe that nothing can be always right, thus proving my point.
Volontary abortion is never 'wrong'.
Abortion was never illegal until recently in human history!!!
Good point Jean Marie. I have not read every post but my daughter asked once. " Why is an undeveloped potential more important than a living woman?" If you are pro-life then whose life are you pro. The woman is here and whether she has no abortion or 20 it is her right and her choice because it is her body. A thinking breathing person is more important life.

I prefer abortion to unwanted, abused, ignored and neglected childern. Being pregnant is not the mystical wonderful transendental experience some people seem to believe. And not every woman loves her child the moment she sees it. And even if she does, the first year of a child's life is a hard, exhausting slog that I wouldn't put anyone through if they didn't want to.

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