In this discussion I would like to talk about abortion. It is always something I have felt very strong about and would argue to the ends of the earth on. I have always been Pro-Life, always. Ever since I became an Atheist, this topic keeps popping up in my head. Since it is something I have not wanted to confront, I have been pushing it to the back burner. Now that I have given it some thought I would like to tell you where I used to stand and where I stand now. When I was a Christian my thought process was "Abortion is Never the right choice unless the mother and child will both die." So even if the child were to survive and the mother dies, abortion is still not the right choice. Some might even consider that murder, I guess. To answer this question I'm sure someone will ask, Yes I would have and still would give up my life for my child. Well, now I'm sort of seeing things a bit different. If a female gets raped and gets pregnant from it, abortion is ok, (sad all the way around - for everyone).  If a woman chooses to abort a baby due to the risk to the mothers life, Ok. If the baby will have a very very very difficult life and in turn make the parents have an equally difficult life, ok. To me abortion is a horrible thing, if someone wants to have an abortion just because oops I got preggo. That is horrible. If you don't want kids do everything in your power to NOT get pregnant. Simple as that. Life is a beautiful an precious thing, and yes I do believe it is special.  Any and All comments are welcome :)

Tags: abortion, pro-choice, pro-life

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You either have the right to it or you don't. Judging the reasons to exercise rights is irrelevant and, well, JM says "smug" and I agree with her, although smug may be too strong of a word. I want a discussion, not a fight!

It is akin to saying someone should not exercise free speech because they say stupid things.
"If men got pregnant, abortion woud be a national sacrament." ~gloria steinham.

I am almost positive that this would be the case.
I'm sorry but birthing a child with the intent of separating it from its mother to me is child abuse. It's also why I disagree with uterus rental services. Generally speaking, children need their mothers to grow up healthy.
Yikes!! Can you believe we're up to 21 pages so quickly? No other topic seems to generate this kind of participation -- whether on this site or others. And within a few months, it will probably happen again!

By everybody cooperating and not getting sidetracked by acrimonious arguments, this discussion has really explored the topic pretty thoroughly. I mean, come on . . . 21 pages and everybody kept their cool?

That just might be unprecedented.

I'm clicking "Stop Following Now" . . . my inbox is flooded.
When they get this long, it is difficult to know if something has been covered or not. Especially for newcomers! C'est la vie!
My personal view is that as long as the foetus has not yet developed the ability to feel pain then it is up to the mother. I think the dangers of back street abortions far outweigh the benefits of encouraging people not to have abortion, but it must obviously be coupled with good education about contraception etc.

I think people sometimes fail to weigh up the mother's life against an undeveloped collection of cells - yes you are preventing it from becoming a baby, but that happens in the body naturally all the time - miscarriage etc. The mother's life, on the other hand, has already started & could be completely turned around by having a baby.

That said, I personally would not ever chose to have children so maybe I see things a bit differently from some.
I think people sometimes fail to weigh up the mother's life against an undeveloped collection of cells - yes you are preventing it from becoming a baby, but that happens in the body naturally all the time - miscarriage etc.

The et cetera also includes letting an ovum go unfertilized. Or masturbating or "early withdrawal", for men.
Yep sorry should have been more specific. Forgot to mention good old masturbation!
Masturbation is always under-represented!
I just have to add that I never thought about abortion from a religious perspective or with religious convictions... all I've said in this thread was what I was thinking (and believed) at the time and probably that's why my opinions we're able to change as I've read more about this and about what other people think. I don't think religion has any saying regarding abortion... or in any other issue or in any other domain.
I don't think religion has any saying regarding abortion... or in any other issue or in any other domain.

Both religion and the pro-life view are deeply emotional stances. Religion does dictate the opinions of people on the matter very much. At the least, they provide rationale for the emotional response to abortion. Maybe not in your case, but in many or most.
I have been an atheist for about 5-10 years. I have never been completely pro-choice as I have always had a problem with when a foetus becomes alive. It's certainly not at conception, but it's certainly happened before full term.

There are all kinds of definitions like when the heart starts to beat, when the nervous system starts firing, even as early as the point at which the foetus folds into a hollow tube to form the gut. They all have problems!

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