In this discussion I would like to talk about abortion. It is always something I have felt very strong about and would argue to the ends of the earth on. I have always been Pro-Life, always. Ever since I became an Atheist, this topic keeps popping up in my head. Since it is something I have not wanted to confront, I have been pushing it to the back burner. Now that I have given it some thought I would like to tell you where I used to stand and where I stand now. When I was a Christian my thought process was "Abortion is Never the right choice unless the mother and child will both die." So even if the child were to survive and the mother dies, abortion is still not the right choice. Some might even consider that murder, I guess. To answer this question I'm sure someone will ask, Yes I would have and still would give up my life for my child. Well, now I'm sort of seeing things a bit different. If a female gets raped and gets pregnant from it, abortion is ok, (sad all the way around - for everyone).  If a woman chooses to abort a baby due to the risk to the mothers life, Ok. If the baby will have a very very very difficult life and in turn make the parents have an equally difficult life, ok. To me abortion is a horrible thing, if someone wants to have an abortion just because oops I got preggo. That is horrible. If you don't want kids do everything in your power to NOT get pregnant. Simple as that. Life is a beautiful an precious thing, and yes I do believe it is special.  Any and All comments are welcome :)

Tags: abortion, pro-choice, pro-life

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Murder is one person intentionally killing another person.

Thus personhood is the legal and moral standard for murder. If one person intentionally kills another person, that's murder.

P.S.
Interesting data.
I fully 101% support abortion. If you don't have the means (physical,financial or mental) to nurture that life PROPERLY,then don't have it.
Joli said I think life is beautiful and precious because we are lucky to have consciousness

I'm mulling over an odd perspective here for the first time, and hope I'm not just repeating someone's similar post in the dozen or so pages I haven't read, yet.

I'm thinking about all the people in the world who've already lived a few minutes or several years, and are suffering terribly or about to die for no fault of their own. It's hard to say which of them at any particular moment we could be saving or helping, but in any case, there's a huge "out of sight, out of mind" factor that makes it possible for us to just ignore their plight.

At this moment (but not always), it kind of feels that way to me wrt fetuses. I'm thinking right now that I don't really have much empathy for a life that doesn't even have consciousness, yet. It doesn't yet have any kind of experience in the world out there, and it has no clue what life or death even is. If a mother miscarries even in her last month, I'll feel no empathy for the fetus, but I'll feel 100% empathy for the mother.

At what point do we ask the state to step in and enforce protection for the life? I usually feel it has more to do with my empathy for the human or other animal. Once a human or animal is born and I can see it breathe and cry, move, see its eyes taking in the world around it, I absolutely have empathy for it, no question. But before it's born, I can't even see someone like myself (before I was born) as "caring" about living. I would not be capable yet of seeking empathy. I can't even imagine that living is living, until I'm out in the world with light and sounds and smells and tastes and touch...

If that sounds insensitive, then I think all I can do is challenge people to care more about the living and actually act on it, because we still have a lot to do to make the world a safe and happy place for everyone who currently has to live in it.
Excellent point. We fret over abortions, but don't give much thought to those who are now alive.
My ire against pro-life conservatives is that they are so passionate about fetuses and zygotes, yet they seem to care little for them once they have developed into children and adults. They overwhelmingly suffer from a "just world fallacy" world view. Once you get into this world, you deserve what you get.
In this day and age, its insane that people are still getting pregnant accidentally, when its so easy to prevent. I raised two girls, very liberally. At an early age they knew about sex and birth control. The only rule I implored them to stick to is "never, EVER, do anything you don't want to do". That was it. They both used birth control responsibly since high school and continue to do so in college. Broken condoms happened, morning after pills were sometimes purchased. Nobody stressed about it, it was a fact of life and a responsibility.

That said, I know one of my girls would have an abortion in a minute if she became pregnant and the other feels that she would never be able to do such a thing. I respect both stands.

The only thing I cannot see is aborting a formed fetus . If you are irresponsible enough to let it go that long, you owe it to that life that's inside you to let it continue. Couples are anxious to adopt, there are options.

I realize not all kids are educated and responsible. I think we need to make this a priority in our schools and have full out sex and birth control education at the very beginning of high school if not sooner. This abstinence silliness is just going to make more babies.
I couldn't agree more - & congratulations on raising such well rounded children!

You're so right that you have to be pretty stupid to get pregnant accidentally, in this country at least. I have a contraceptive implant that lasts 3 years - no accidents!
Excuse me? I don't think i said anything about thinking certain women have less right to abortion. I said you'd have to be stupid to get pregnant nowadays in this country - did I exclude myself from that? no.

I have a very close friend who had an abortion simply because she didn't take precautions & wasn't ready for a child... She knew better, but she did what she did & it was an incredibly traumatic time for her. I didn't judge her for it & I would most likely do the same thing in her place because I have no desire to ever have kids. So please don't accuse me of being smug, I have a uterus & I value it's emptiness thank you very much.

There is a world of difference between thinking someone is foolish & denying their reproductive rights. I would like to think I'm a better woman than that, so don't jump to conclusions about people please.
I said you'd have to be stupid to get pregnant nowadays in this country

There are a lot of stupid people, and we are all stupid about something.
Yes, true. I've had to have the morning after pill more than once through my own carelessness. I realise it sounded like a sweeping generslisation, all i was trying to get at is that there's enough education & different forms of free contraception around in the UK that it shouldn't have to be a reason unless you're not careful. I never said being stupid was a crime or a reason to be denied an abortion.
I never said being stupid was a crime or a reason to be denied an abortion.

Didn't mean to imply that you did. :-)
No problem, I worded it idiotically!

I consider myself a staunch feminist so I was a bit surprised lol. Sometimes i can come across as a bit harsh online... I do believe that if we're going to get the respect we deserve everyone needs to take responsibly for contraception. Having said that, I fully realise that accidents happen to the best of us... including me ;)

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