In this discussion I would like to talk about abortion. It is always something I have felt very strong about and would argue to the ends of the earth on. I have always been Pro-Life, always. Ever since I became an Atheist, this topic keeps popping up in my head. Since it is something I have not wanted to confront, I have been pushing it to the back burner. Now that I have given it some thought I would like to tell you where I used to stand and where I stand now. When I was a Christian my thought process was "Abortion is Never the right choice unless the mother and child will both die." So even if the child were to survive and the mother dies, abortion is still not the right choice. Some might even consider that murder, I guess. To answer this question I'm sure someone will ask, Yes I would have and still would give up my life for my child. Well, now I'm sort of seeing things a bit different. If a female gets raped and gets pregnant from it, abortion is ok, (sad all the way around - for everyone).  If a woman chooses to abort a baby due to the risk to the mothers life, Ok. If the baby will have a very very very difficult life and in turn make the parents have an equally difficult life, ok. To me abortion is a horrible thing, if someone wants to have an abortion just because oops I got preggo. That is horrible. If you don't want kids do everything in your power to NOT get pregnant. Simple as that. Life is a beautiful an precious thing, and yes I do believe it is special.  Any and All comments are welcome :)

Tags: abortion, pro-choice, pro-life

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How does increasing the population of an overly-populated world express any lovey-dovey-doveyness toward mankind? Huh? Huh? Huh?

It will eventually bring us all much closer together. Claustrophobic, squishy kind of close together. Until resources become scare and the cannibalism begins. But even the cannibalism will bring people much closer to our hearts... momentarily while traveling the passage down to our stomachs.

We are not herring or sardines, we are not ants, we are not bees or termites, we are not gazelles or caribou. We are apes, and we really need to stop this illusion of more humans is good, it is not. The more of us there are the more expendable we are. The more deadly wars will become, the more poverty disparity there will be, the more slave labour there will be. More humans is bad on all counts. The larger the size of the human grouping, the more repressive the laws must be in order to stop us from killing each other. The more humans there are the less wildlife there is, the less rivers there will be, the less fish in the ocean.

There is not a single "good" to more of us. PRO-vasectomy, Pro-abortion, all the way!

Bursts out laughing.  Very good, Kris!

Erin, this one's for you :)

As for hate, nope, I don't "hate" humanity, I am simply being objective about our disastrous effects on our ecosystem. I'm a biologist, I can't help myself, I see all of the ecosystem as a whole, not a resource placed there by some gawd (remember gods were created in the image of humans, not the opposite) for the sole enjoyment of one single species called Homo sapiens.

Erin, and another one you may enjoy ... :)

Eventually, without a pandemic, there will be too many humans.  Perhaps the Christians who are so pro-life (is that anti-abortion?) can just ask their god to make another world. He could start over again, without the sin bit.  Hey, maybe he already has!  Meanwhile, on planet Earth...

Can you imagine a society where everyone is implanted with contraception (or sprayed, or in the water or whatever) and you have to apply to have a child, and demonstrate you have the ability to support it before you can be made fertile?.  No?  

OK can you imagine a society where everyone uses effective contraception so as not to have children unless they are fully able to support them (emotionally and financially)? No?

Can you imagine a society where the more intelligent or better off element decides not to have children but the poorer and less educated have them all the time?  Er, not looking good, is it?

We have a massive escalating population.  You would think we might reward people who have abortions.  But no.  At the moment we are even debating whether contraception is murder.

Unbelievable.  It is not as if you can ban abortions.  You can only ban legal doctors in sterile environments from carrying them out. The back-street dirty abortions will always fill the gap - and get the mothers too, with a bit of septicemia or such.

Prohibition is such a successful technique. (there so needs to be a font type for sarcasm)

Excellent points, Strega.

"Can you imagine a society where the more intelligent or better off element decides not to have children but the poorer and less educated have them all the time? Er, not looking good, is it?"

This is the premise of Mike Judge's movie, "Idiocracy" - an extrapolated view of current trends.

Which was a most entertaining film!

Strega, I agree with everything except the massive population growth. Take a look at this and Hans Rosling's video from TED. He basically says that the world will top off at 10 billion people but it will take a long time to get to that, mostly due to developing countries having fewer and fewer babies. 


We are so past that!

We have been overpopulated for half a century! All previous faunal extinctions on this planet were due to geological events. This extinction phase the planet's been going though the past couple of thousand years is the FIRST TIME IN EARTH's history where mass extinction is attributable to a single species instead of a geological event.

So forget about all the charts that sooth people into thinking our growth is not growing as fast as it used to, they are entirely irrelevant, this is a long standing problem we're dealing with here, which will require massive lifestyle reorganisation.

IFF humans were overpopulating the earth, biology would have ways of shutting that whole thing down.


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