In this discussion I would like to talk about abortion. It is always something I have felt very strong about and would argue to the ends of the earth on. I have always been Pro-Life, always. Ever since I became an Atheist, this topic keeps popping up in my head. Since it is something I have not wanted to confront, I have been pushing it to the back burner. Now that I have given it some thought I would like to tell you where I used to stand and where I stand now. When I was a Christian my thought process was "Abortion is Never the right choice unless the mother and child will both die." So even if the child were to survive and the mother dies, abortion is still not the right choice. Some might even consider that murder, I guess. To answer this question I'm sure someone will ask, Yes I would have and still would give up my life for my child. Well, now I'm sort of seeing things a bit different. If a female gets raped and gets pregnant from it, abortion is ok, (sad all the way around - for everyone).  If a woman chooses to abort a baby due to the risk to the mothers life, Ok. If the baby will have a very very very difficult life and in turn make the parents have an equally difficult life, ok. To me abortion is a horrible thing, if someone wants to have an abortion just because oops I got preggo. That is horrible. If you don't want kids do everything in your power to NOT get pregnant. Simple as that. Life is a beautiful an precious thing, and yes I do believe it is special.  Any and All comments are welcome :)

Tags: abortion, pro-choice, pro-life

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How do you know you actually have free will?

I have to agree with your theory.  But the Christians would debate that entirely especially when you apply that to human vegetables such as Terry Schiavo.  There's no consciousness there so would she have been considered a life?  I think having machines keeping you alive should spell out the obvious, but the oh so pro-life (yet pro-death penalty) would believe she would be "alive".

In this case I have to say it becomes difficult to define, I know that personally if I were to go into a vegetative state at any point I would want someone to end my existence as I would not consider that a life. Without thought and consciousness we are nothing but a machine carrying out functions for the sole purpose of keeping the machine running.

But then this is just my opinion.

Once the brain starts functioning then i think it's murder. Before? A mass of tissue that happenes to have potential for life. Hope my opinion helps.

Hey, I was just wondering. What do you guys think about the father's role in abortion? People often ignore the father's opinion, or so I have seen. (And lets assume that he is not a rapist!)

Consultative only. I've known a few women who've received promises of daddy-ship from the guy, only to have him walk away in the late months of pregnancy or soon after birth. The male can always change his mind, the female is almost always stuck with the result.

The only problem I have with youe logic is that it seems to punish the father just because their is a large enough stereotype (if you would call it that) of bad fathers. It makes me feel that the mother is some-how more of a parent than the father. Like punishing a dad just because he lacks the ability to become pregnant. What do you think of this reasoning?

It's a matter of "the buck stops here".

I as a human can only count on myself. To make any decision that will affect my daily life for the next 18-20 years based on someone else's promises is simply not reasonable. It's not about stereotypes, it's about where the ultimate responsibility rests. When I pay the final price, it is my decision. If any other individual wants to help out... fine, but it's on no more than a momentary basis.

I would not be surprised if a man (who really cared for his child) became almost homicidal over the fact that his partner aborted the baby. I know that sound extremely harsh, but I just wonder how some-one would deal with that if the mother made that decision. It is just mind-rattling to me (when using your logic). And again, I used "homicidal" in a non-threatening way!

That type of male does not deserve the title of sentient human being and I really wish women did not procreate with such violent minded males. In addition to that... males don't even know it's their offspring unless the female tells them... so your words simply encourage any future spouse of yours to not be truthful.

Just in case you mis-understood my meaning of "homicidal" (which I am not saying you did, but I am not sure if you did or not) I meant it in the way that any good parent would want to protect their family or the feeling of need to avenge an individual who is dear to them. Like if I was killed infront of my father, how he would feel the extreme need to destroy the criminal who killed me. Or how a mother may want to kill some-one who killed her child. If you did take it that way, then I guess I just repeated my-self for no reason. But I think a male (and not just a male, but any parent) that would use all of their power to avenge or protect their child deserves to pro-create. But the way you explain it, it is like a hostage situation. I see it unfair that the mother just gets to hold the baby hostage while the father has no say in his child's life, legally as you say.

If that's the way you feel, I recommend having a talk about abortion before you become sexually active with a new partner.

However, you'll still have to remember that, ultimately, it's her body so the decision is hers.

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