In this discussion I would like to talk about abortion. It is always something I have felt very strong about and would argue to the ends of the earth on. I have always been Pro-Life, always. Ever since I became an Atheist, this topic keeps popping up in my head. Since it is something I have not wanted to confront, I have been pushing it to the back burner. Now that I have given it some thought I would like to tell you where I used to stand and where I stand now. When I was a Christian my thought process was "Abortion is Never the right choice unless the mother and child will both die." So even if the child were to survive and the mother dies, abortion is still not the right choice. Some might even consider that murder, I guess. To answer this question I'm sure someone will ask, Yes I would have and still would give up my life for my child. Well, now I'm sort of seeing things a bit different. If a female gets raped and gets pregnant from it, abortion is ok, (sad all the way around - for everyone).  If a woman chooses to abort a baby due to the risk to the mothers life, Ok. If the baby will have a very very very difficult life and in turn make the parents have an equally difficult life, ok. To me abortion is a horrible thing, if someone wants to have an abortion just because oops I got preggo. That is horrible. If you don't want kids do everything in your power to NOT get pregnant. Simple as that. Life is a beautiful an precious thing, and yes I do believe it is special.  Any and All comments are welcome :)

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Mentality is the one thing christians lack.

Ooooh, epic burn, atheists!  He trolled you all real good.  Time to celebrate with some self-congratulatory masturbation, eh?  Killing more babies....  Mmmmmmm!

Sounds like dinnah time!

We already HAVE learned, that's the thing. It is you who lacks education.   :)

I don't really ponder abortion nor do I obsess over it.  There's no logic in being saddened by someone else choice, whether it was based on selfish, callousness or what not.  Not my problem.

I would conjecture that conciousness defines life, therefore once the foetus develops conciousness (not sure exactly when but I do recall that this does happen during pregnancy, I'll try and find references if ya like) it's a baby and abortion is wrong, however before this point I think the wishes of the mother/father should be upheld. I would expect a lot of people would probably reject my conciousness = life theory though :P

consciousness without free will is worthless.

Without free will / self determination, we are but vegetables. Yes vegetables are life... but...

How do you know you actually have free will?

I have to agree with your theory.  But the Christians would debate that entirely especially when you apply that to human vegetables such as Terry Schiavo.  There's no consciousness there so would she have been considered a life?  I think having machines keeping you alive should spell out the obvious, but the oh so pro-life (yet pro-death penalty) would believe she would be "alive".

In this case I have to say it becomes difficult to define, I know that personally if I were to go into a vegetative state at any point I would want someone to end my existence as I would not consider that a life. Without thought and consciousness we are nothing but a machine carrying out functions for the sole purpose of keeping the machine running.

But then this is just my opinion.

Consultative only. I've known a few women who've received promises of daddy-ship from the guy, only to have him walk away in the late months of pregnancy or soon after birth. The male can always change his mind, the female is almost always stuck with the result.

It's a matter of "the buck stops here".

I as a human can only count on myself. To make any decision that will affect my daily life for the next 18-20 years based on someone else's promises is simply not reasonable. It's not about stereotypes, it's about where the ultimate responsibility rests. When I pay the final price, it is my decision. If any other individual wants to help out... fine, but it's on no more than a momentary basis.


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