In this discussion I would like to talk about abortion. It is always something I have felt very strong about and would argue to the ends of the earth on. I have always been Pro-Life, always. Ever since I became an Atheist, this topic keeps popping up in my head. Since it is something I have not wanted to confront, I have been pushing it to the back burner. Now that I have given it some thought I would like to tell you where I used to stand and where I stand now. When I was a Christian my thought process was "Abortion is Never the right choice unless the mother and child will both die." So even if the child were to survive and the mother dies, abortion is still not the right choice. Some might even consider that murder, I guess. To answer this question I'm sure someone will ask, Yes I would have and still would give up my life for my child. Well, now I'm sort of seeing things a bit different. If a female gets raped and gets pregnant from it, abortion is ok, (sad all the way around - for everyone).  If a woman chooses to abort a baby due to the risk to the mothers life, Ok. If the baby will have a very very very difficult life and in turn make the parents have an equally difficult life, ok. To me abortion is a horrible thing, if someone wants to have an abortion just because oops I got preggo. That is horrible. If you don't want kids do everything in your power to NOT get pregnant. Simple as that. Life is a beautiful an precious thing, and yes I do believe it is special.  Any and All comments are welcome :)

Tags: abortion, pro-choice, pro-life

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Yes, WE know that, but the religious must bring God into every aspect of their lives. Fine with me, but that doesn't justify why it should be brought into MY life. If they think its a horrible act against God and would never have an abortion for themselves then that's their CHOICE, they can believe what they want. I find the issue comes when they want everyone else who doesn't share their view to be forced to go along with it. I don't see there being any harm in giving people their choices on this subject. 

Along the course of time, while religions were being invented by the leaders of humans, and gods were invented to instil fear in order to control the masses, unlimited reproduction, seen as a weapon of war, war by numbers, was a primary component of the purpose of religion. Unlimited reproduction (breeding) is still a component of the religious wars. Overbreeding and religion are inseparable. Religious people are indoctrinated into thinking that humans are precious, in order to create more disposable humans, in order to outnumber the other religious factions. Religious citizens are the breeding pawns of war mongers.


Our methods of economics, notwithstanding its many faults, has taught us one very important consideration, the availability of a resource is inversely proportional to its value. Religious leaders know this. As our human population expands, it becomes more and more important for religious leaders to instil the "precious human" doctrine. We need precious disposable humans to send to slaughter at war, to ensure our place at the top of civilisation. Breeding contributes to the war effort.


Now us women in the west have been reducing our war effort, but what have our governments done to compensate? we now encourage population growth in the third world, then import those disposable war workers here. As usual, our governments working against us.


The Stork, by animator Nina Paley

That is one of the best and most succinct explanations of this aspect of the issue I have ever seen.

I agree with you, the religious leaders do have an agenda, but I don't think that is the only reason people find to be anti-choice. I think a lot of people have a surprising lack of information on the issue and think of it as immoral whether they are religiously indoctrinated to think so or not. I've come across plenty and personally know quite a few religious individuals who would get an abortion if their Birth Control didn't work. Most of them are post-secondary students like myself. Their own "selfishness" to complete school outweighs their indoctrination. 

  • In America, over 90% of women pregnant with a Down syndrome fetus abort it. Palin is typical of the one in 10 that does not.
  • In Denmark, the percentge is almost 100. Denmark is far more moral than America is: free universal adequate health care, firmly established social safety net for the ill, infirm or disabled and no capital punishment.
  • Denmark has a state sponsored church, but almost all Danes are  secular, the majority being atheists.

Therefore, religions create and sustain the anti-free choice movement. Secondly, the only moral abortion for members of the movement is their own.

An anti-choice US senator signed off on a 2nd-term abortion for his wife:


Really, they could have not given the antibiotics. A similar woman(who wasn't a senator's wife, and therefore, not important) went into cancer remission mid-pregnancy--instead of giving her chemo, which would have killed the baby, they instead shoved a feeding tube down her throat and put her in a drug coma in the hopes the baby would be delivered late enough for it to survive--it didn't. She died a few days after the premature baby was born, due to the completely untreated cancer.

The fact that a hospital could do this to me and any other woman if the wrong doctor attends terrifies the living shit out of me.



I don't see the relevance of comparing the "moralities" of different countries. Denmark also has a huge neo-nazi movement, high alcoholism, etc...

The grass is generally NOT greener on the other side. We all have our shits to deal with.

19% that "they do not believe there is any sort of spirit, god, or ...

That's only 3% higher than Canada. And we're a bunch of religious/spiritual/imaginary followers too. I think some our atheist forum members read much too much into certain statistics.

I agree with you that patriarchal modern day religions sustain the pro-life movement, but it was not always so. In the "rabid" sense, pro-lifers are a very recent phenomenon.  Women have been aborting for thousands of millennia. Only in the last century has become a big deal.

Great post gary.  I've been to Denmark, several times.  I agree with you 100%.   It's 'better managed' than the U.S., by light years.

abortion is not "the new fashion", as another wise TA user said commenting my post about abortion in italy: it is a dreadful choice to which a woman can be forced by circumstances. anyway, undesidered pregnancies happen, so, if things goes for a girl like "ooops i got preggo", meaning that she is going to ruin her life having a baby, or that she is going to give to her baby a bad life (not giving him/her what he/she needs to grow up happily, or simply fostering the child with some institute, letting him/her growing up as an orphan), maybe to give birth to this baby is not the best solution.

EDIT: i haven't noticed that this post was an old one bumped by william... i apologize  -_-'

I do not have the time to read all the other post, but I would like to through in my opinion.


I am pro-life because I am against murder. My reasoning goes like this: Once conception occurs the entity created is a human (there is no argument against that, it is genetically a human). Humans have certain rights and one of those is protection from murder. The mother has no right to end it's life because it is not her life to end, it is the child's life. I do accept abortions in the case of possible death to the mother, rape, and extreme ill-being of the child (severe deformity), but that is it. Take responsibility for what you create. I can not find the words to describe how disgusted I am with those who find it in their "rights" to end a life; this is taken to a new level when you create the life (with the exceptions I described). Those are my thoughts.

You really should read other posts.


BTW, I create sperm and they are alive and genetically human and I murder them by the millions!  Mwahaha!

There were 35 other pages, I did not have the time to read all of that. Besides, I was not commenting on other's post, just giving my own opinion. So I thought it would be fine, I hope you forgive me. And technically you are only murdering millions oh half-humans. With-out eggs it does not count (in my book). And yes, that was funny.

Also! I love your profile picture. That is an adorable dog!



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