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Permalink Reply by gary gromet on October 15, 2011 at 11:06am

Excellent content and well written.  Perhaps you might run for political office.

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Permalink Reply by Sharon M on October 15, 2011 at 12:54pm

Thank you! Unfortunately, even in Canada it seems I wouldn't be voted in based on my views. In the past Federal and Municipal (Toronto) elections people have voted in representatives that seem (to me at least) scarily similar to the Republicans of America. I think being pro-choice still has a negative stigma even among the non-religious. People see it as only an ethical issue rather than a financial, or social issue. Yes, emotions are involved but it's a personal matter so as far as government goes, I wish they would look at it more logically than emotionally.

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Permalink Reply by gary gromet on October 15, 2011 at 4:19pm

Being an atheist, I know many atheists and everyone of them is pro-choice. (as well as pro-LGBT equal rights). Believing in supernatural powers/beings seems to be a prerequisite for being a GOP and for denying human beings basic human rights such as free adequate health care. Only prisoners in USA get such care. As for whether you would be elected, if you do not try you won't be. Obama was elected because he was a better choice than McCain (too old and showed himself an idiot by selecting the totally unqualified Palin as his VP. He may be re-elected because the GOP picks someone like Perry. He may be defeated by a Romney/Cain ticket since Romney will get some independents and Cain will split the black vote.

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Permalink Reply by T A A on October 15, 2011 at 4:43pm

There are actually quite a few atheists who are not pro-choice. Religious indoctrination sticks with people long after they admit god is non-existent.

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Permalink Reply by Jonel Burge on October 15, 2011 at 5:08pm

Well also on r/atheism I found a lot of guys who assumed every woman who needed an abortion was a whore and thus "we don't need abortion, only whores use it."

 

That and a lot of them assumed birth control never failed, and it wasn't really their problem anyways. It's not like they'll ever be shamed for having an abortion.

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Permalink Reply by gary gromet on October 16, 2011 at 12:19am

I never heard of any atheist who are not pro-choice. Introduce me to one.

Your second sentence makes no sense to me unless you mean that an atheist can enjoy religious traditions. Well, I enjoy all religious festivals like Xmas( Santa, trees), Ester (bunny), Rosh Shananh and Passover Hannukah (great food, wine, arguments and other typivcally Jewish mayhem). 

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Permalink Reply by T A A on October 16, 2011 at 1:46am

my mom (I'm 3rd generation atheist), and I've read several others, all you need to do is search them out.
As for religious indoctrination sticking with people past their atheist declaration... there is plenty of that around here and on all other forums. Most of the moralists that go on and on, lecturing us about morality... IMO that's religious indoctrination talking. You may certainly disagree. My family as an example, we're all atheists, and we're generally moral relativists. If you're raised outside those religious standards, they simply do not dawn on you magically. What you call "enjoying religious traditions" is only a very small component of what I'm adressing.

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Permalink Reply by Sharon M on October 16, 2011 at 11:56am

Two of those are actually originally pagan holidays predating Christianity. Xmas= Saturnalia/ Winter Solstice (decorating trees was a Norse tradition...there were no evergreens in Jerusalem, and I've never heard of decorating a palm tree during Jesus' birth). Easter= Eostre (actually a fertility celebration, hence the bunny). If Christianity never existed we would still enjoy these holidays, just without Jesus being involved. 

As far as religion sticking with you .... yes I'll admit that happened to me frequently as I was breaking away from Catholicism. But I believe that if you were raised believing something, getting away from it is a process. Whether God exists based on proof and fact is a black and white distinction but getting over habits can take time. Eventually, I do believe religious indoctrination can completely be removed from a person's life depending on how strongly they want it gone. 

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Permalink Reply by Jewelz on October 17, 2011 at 11:21am

There are actually quite a few atheists who are not pro-choice.

 

That's an interesting statement. I agree, though to clarify, my anecdotal evidence as well as responses from atheists on sites such as this one would suggest an infinitesimally small percentage of atheists would advocate banning abortion in every situation without exception. The only group of people who seem to hold this opinion are religious fundamentalists.

 

As for the atheists who do label themselves pro-life (a small percentage but if they were all together it would certainly be "quite a few"), further questioning shows they're often personally pro-life but politically pro-choice (still pro-choice imo, no matter what they call themselves). Less often, they're what I like to call "mostly pro-choice." They would not ban abortion in a variety of cases such as ectopic pregnancies, severe genetic defects, birth control failure or tampering, endangerment to the mother, and usually rape or incest as well. (Apparently abortion is murder and a fetus is definitely an innocent child unless it's a product of rape. In that case it's only a fetus, not an innocent child, so murder away ladies!)

 

The only situation on which these "mostly pro-choicers" (religious or non) always seem to be anti-choice is that of accidental pregnancy due to sexually irresponsible females. It's as if they believe carrying a pregnancy to term is a fair punishment for a sexually mature female who spreads her legs without desiring to procreate. Apparently, no female should have sex unless she's willing to accept her role as a baby-making machine in case of unintended pregnancy. That's seems like an irrational opinion for a logical thinker, and I do believe many atheists who hold this opinion are probably suffering from residual religion.

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Permalink Reply by T A A on October 18, 2011 at 12:35am

Indeed, the atheist pro-lifers I've encountered were certainly not rabid :)

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Permalink Reply by Sharon M on October 15, 2011 at 10:33pm

I don't think religion is the only way people decide if they are pro-choice or pro-"life". Yes religious people have their reason to be anti-choice, but I find the non-religious do as well. This issue isn't just about "what does God want?". It's also a moral dilemma for some. People argue on the basis of whether in fact it is murder by modern society's standards. For the reasons I mentioned before, it really isn't but too many people don't take the time to research or think about it in great detail. The Atheists you know are probably critical-thinkers, but there are Atheists out there who are not. 

I honestly can't imagine myself running for political office. It's never been an interest of mine and, to be frank, I would be bad at it. The good thing about Canadian politics is that there are at least 2 parties that feel the same way I do on the issue, unfortunately the Canadian public hasn't been voting for them lately.

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Permalink Reply by T A A on October 16, 2011 at 1:41am

Most all Canadian trends follow USA trends 5 years down the road, so this nasty right-wing obsession Canadian citizens are in, following in the footsteps of Dubia, should end with this government's term, if not sooner if we get off our collective safe asses and change the mind of each and every one of our neighbours and peer groups. I get so fed up of people around me blaming the electoral system. Governments elected by different systems are no better than the Canadian government. It's about the people, and right now, Canadians are leaning right. It's up to us to change that.

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