In this discussion I would like to talk about abortion. It is always something I have felt very strong about and would argue to the ends of the earth on. I have always been Pro-Life, always. Ever since I became an Atheist, this topic keeps popping up in my head. Since it is something I have not wanted to confront, I have been pushing it to the back burner. Now that I have given it some thought I would like to tell you where I used to stand and where I stand now. When I was a Christian my thought process was "Abortion is Never the right choice unless the mother and child will both die." So even if the child were to survive and the mother dies, abortion is still not the right choice. Some might even consider that murder, I guess. To answer this question I'm sure someone will ask, Yes I would have and still would give up my life for my child. Well, now I'm sort of seeing things a bit different. If a female gets raped and gets pregnant from it, abortion is ok, (sad all the way around - for everyone).  If a woman chooses to abort a baby due to the risk to the mothers life, Ok. If the baby will have a very very very difficult life and in turn make the parents have an equally difficult life, ok. To me abortion is a horrible thing, if someone wants to have an abortion just because oops I got preggo. That is horrible. If you don't want kids do everything in your power to NOT get pregnant. Simple as that. Life is a beautiful an precious thing, and yes I do believe it is special.  Any and All comments are welcome :)

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If you don't want kids do everything in your power to NOT get pregnant.


For 14 years I begged docs to sterilize me, but noooooooooooooooooooooo, they were insistent I would eventually want children. So any moral judgement regarding my abortions (while making use of the pill, condoms, morning after pill) is SQUARELY on the patriarchal hypocritical medical establishment.
Oh man, don't even get me started.  I've known since I was 15 that I would never ever ever ever raise a child, but do you think anyone would believe me?  Hell no!  I'm 37 and as adamant about it now as I was then.   It pisses me off that those freaking doctors thought I was just some stupid kid who thought sterilization would be an easy way to have worry free sex.  Man it pisses me off.  I was having deep and rational thoughts about my long term well being, and they were treating me like a stupid horny kid.   Ugh, man, I know exactly how freaking maddening that is!!!
I don't understand why they will not sterilize people when they ask for it.. In AL, you have to have at least 2 before they will fix you?
Because although even atheists claim to have been through enlightenment, it is all words, most humans are still very much attached to their reproductive potential and turn that into a moral stance. I really dislike morality, it's so BS. If humans, including atheists, were as science conscious as we claim to be we'd see that Homo sapiens outnumbering other large mammals is not healthy for our ecosystem and the enlightened thing to do is cease reproduction for a while. THAT would be rising above animal instincts... the lowerered fertility rates we see on the planet are thousands of times insufficient.

I agree with you there.. Still it is my uterus, and if I want to be fixed or want an IUD how many critters I have contributed to society should not have anything to do with it..

Its mine do what I tell you too.. Is my way of thinking about it..

I hate that you have gone through what you have gone through then you have all these pro life people arguing that its immoral..

Period point blank. Morality is just as oppressive as religion, unless you define a moral for your life and your life only..

I dont' think it is right that a doctor can tell you no about being fixed or having an IUD any more than I think it is right for some one to tell you what your morals should be.

I am very much so against both!

Morals are nothing more than opinions, we all have them and they all stink when we try and push them on to others!

You know what was a real surprise to me after I finally got my tubes cauterised? My promiscuity went down, a whole lot!!!


I spent months and years pondering on that and came to the conclusion that I'd been allowing myself to live in a zone of illusion, like:

-maybe... if I found the right guy

-maybe... if the world were not overpopulated

They were extremely small maybes, somewhere in the range of strong agnostics' assessment of god.

I also tended to date nice guys, guys oddly enough with good fatherly potential, whereas a good many women complain that they can't find a good man to become a father, which is why they ended up with jerk assholes... but why did I end up with the good guys?


Anyway, after the cauterisation, I truly stopped dating and/or fucking men who thought of children. Which means my sex life went way downhill! hehehe


So in the greater scheme of things, if my experience can be extrapolated, widespread sterilisation would not only reduce unwanted pregnancies, but might also reduce the incidence of STDs! (Not that I ever had any...)

I have heard that a lot of women's desire goes down hill after, I know a few who say it sky rocketed because they didn't have to worry about getting knocked up..

My mom is 50 going thorough menopause and still is very out spoken about how much she loves it knowing she doesn't have to worry about sex.. lol

Irregardless, before they go messing with abortion laws they need to fix the laws that limit women to be fixed if that is what they want. 

I am not even fixed but since my IUD my desire has decreased.. Quite a bit actually, that might have to do with the kids that wear me out too.

I know many women that have wanted to have their tubes tied who were denied.. To me that should never happen.. If they ask for it they should get it..

well... to be truthful, my libido is intact... it's just my assessment of each potential partner which is much harsher :)


Quickly, quickly, fix that irregardless!

LOL I see what you mean about that..
My husband and I were just talking about this, it really baffles me that there is so much controversy  about abortion and yet a woman can't get her tubes tied until she's had x number of children.  Give me a break!  Not to mention how many women get pregnant on the pill!  I can't take the pill because of serious side effects and I couldn't get my tubes tied with my last baby (I have two kids) because I ended up having her via c-section at a Catholic hospital that doesn't sterilize AT ALL.   I have no interest going under the knife again, my husband is considering a vasectomy but it's really irritating and hypocritical that the religious right wants to force women to stay pregnant when they are doing NOTHING serious to prevent the pregnancies in the first place.

I agree with you Janelle. It isn't very fair that people want to scream and jump up and down with out educating themselves on why women might consider having an abortion to begin with..

My husband and I just did a ton of research on it.. Truth is they recover faster than we do, and it is not as serious a procedure for them as it is for us.. It is day surgery for them, it is a hospital stay for us.

Their recovery time is less than ours too.. To us it just makes more sense to do it that way..

They see the threat of pregnancy as a way of preventing people from having sex.  Literally, I am not making this up.  I had one Catholic woman actually say to me:  "You've got to pay to play."  She said this in reference to the possibility of pregnancy--she wasn't saying that she expected her husband to buy her dinner first.


Can you believe such insanity?


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