In this discussion I would like to talk about abortion. It is always something I have felt very strong about and would argue to the ends of the earth on. I have always been Pro-Life, always. Ever since I became an Atheist, this topic keeps popping up in my head. Since it is something I have not wanted to confront, I have been pushing it to the back burner. Now that I have given it some thought I would like to tell you where I used to stand and where I stand now. When I was a Christian my thought process was "Abortion is Never the right choice unless the mother and child will both die." So even if the child were to survive and the mother dies, abortion is still not the right choice. Some might even consider that murder, I guess. To answer this question I'm sure someone will ask, Yes I would have and still would give up my life for my child. Well, now I'm sort of seeing things a bit different. If a female gets raped and gets pregnant from it, abortion is ok, (sad all the way around - for everyone).  If a woman chooses to abort a baby due to the risk to the mothers life, Ok. If the baby will have a very very very difficult life and in turn make the parents have an equally difficult life, ok. To me abortion is a horrible thing, if someone wants to have an abortion just because oops I got preggo. That is horrible. If you don't want kids do everything in your power to NOT get pregnant. Simple as that. Life is a beautiful an precious thing, and yes I do believe it is special.  Any and All comments are welcome :)

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How about this, if you're so deeply concerned with overpopulation, and contraceptives dont work 100%, and the viewpoints on abortion are so different, maybe, just maybe, the solution is: Don't fuck around!


Thank you, you are so enlightening. Death is normal, death is natural, death is even often desirable, you lifers are really depressing me.

When's enough? IMO we're way past enough. If it means anything at all that we have a large brain to body mass ratio, it should be the ability to recognise and deal with the fact that we've caused problems, otherwise our brains are useless.
We have more medicated humans than ever, more obese humans than ever in history, more depressed humans than ever in history, religioisty planet-wide isn't much changed, obviously we're doing something wrong.

What we're doing wrong is perpetuating the CHRISTIAN dogma of dominion over nature. It's time to let go of dogmas.

...oops I got preggo. That is horrible. If you don't want kids do everything in your power to NOT get pregnant

A friend of mine had a bit of an oops situation. She worked at a supermarket (i.e. can't really support a family on her own) and ended up having an affair with a married man. She has one ovary with cysts (the other had been removed due to cysts), was on the pill, and used a condom and she got pregnant. If I was in her situation I'm not sure if I would abort the baby because I couldn't afford to support it without becoming a cliched welfare mum, or if I would keep it because it's probably the only chance she will get.

Simple as that

Is it? really? I'm pro-choice because the life or death of someone elses unborn child is NEVER that simple.

it is if you dont fuck around :P


People who don't fuck generally lack intimacy in their life which is a common cause for a horrible life... you know the expression, "you need to get laid", it's good for us, babies often aren't.

wow, the main thing I am learning that I am a complete wuss! Humanists some of you are not. What about a catch, neuter and release program for boys in schools like they do with cats? That would prevent a ton of abortions. When the pandemic bird flu comes around maybe the population will be decimated enough that fertile types can have hetero sex again. Until then, maybe we should just all become gay. Or abstinent. If you really hate humanity do you stay childless as well. Or do you just want that for icky people.

How does increasing the population of an overly-populated world express any lovey-dovey-doveyness toward mankind? Huh? Huh? Huh?

We are not herring or sardines, we are not ants, we are not bees or termites, we are not gazelles or caribou. We are apes, and we really need to stop this illusion of more humans is good, it is not. The more of us there are the more expendable we are. The more deadly wars will become, the more poverty disparity there will be, the more slave labour there will be. More humans is bad on all counts. The larger the size of the human grouping, the more repressive the laws must be in order to stop us from killing each other. The more humans there are the less wildlife there is, the less rivers there will be, the less fish in the ocean.

There is not a single "good" to more of us. PRO-vasectomy, Pro-abortion, all the way!

Bursts out laughing.  Very good, Kris!

Erin, this one's for you :)

As for hate, nope, I don't "hate" humanity, I am simply being objective about our disastrous effects on our ecosystem. I'm a biologist, I can't help myself, I see all of the ecosystem as a whole, not a resource placed there by some gawd (remember gods were created in the image of humans, not the opposite) for the sole enjoyment of one single species called Homo sapiens.

Erin, and another one you may enjoy ... :)


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