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Permalink Reply by Frink on January 28, 2011 at 2:34am

Nope.  Like any cross-section of society there are outspoken or activist members, non-participating members and traditionalist members.  Some things to keep in mind.  First, it is primarily theists who are criticizing the new atheists, not other atheists.  Second, of those atheists who do criticize the new atheists, they vary in position from traditional, philosophical atheism to principled agnosticism to pro-theistic atheism (those who don't believe in God but see religion primarily as a source of good--somehow, they exist).  There is no unified front.

 

Right now, the so-called "new atheists" are the visible face of atheism.  This means two things:  1) they're more likely to be attacked from any angle.  2) their method is making waves and accomplishing things.

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Permalink Reply by Serendipity Rose on January 28, 2011 at 3:42am

No schism. Just different personalities. 

 

Traditionally I tend to be non-confrontational but I am finding in my middle-aged years that I am much more opinionated than I used to be so I speak out more than I used to. 

 

Some things that other, more outspoken, atheists do sometimes makes me uncomfortable because of the appearance of boldness. But that is just me. For those things I will just stand back or opt out of financially supporting it if it seems likes something a little too aggressive for my taste.

 

With that being said, it takes all kinds of people to make a world. If it weren't for some of those aggressives clearing the path...

 

I also don't have a problem with questioning a group of atheist that I am involved in, in-person or online, if the tone of the conversation stays on the negative side. Perhaps some people have no family or friends in religion or they were ok with leaving those acquaintance behind, but many of us still live with people in various religions. I don't think it's helpful to constantly bash or make fun of religion in general because those religions are made up of individuals. It's easy to get into the habit of criticizing religion but it isn't always helpful. 

 

I think there is many more distinctions that just atheist and new-atheist. I would be more worried if there weren't. 

 

I think that some people get into a lot of negative talk because they are still trying to adjust. Many of us go through a kind of grieving process, leaving behind one life and trying to figure out how to best manage our new life. Grieving can seem negative but it's an essential part of de-conversion if you have been in religion. 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by BryanPaul on February 4, 2011 at 2:51am

Good points Frink. I agree. The new atheist is the current reps for the cause is all thats happening. The old schools just weren't vocal about it. Maybe it's the growing numbers but atheists seem to be stepping up more and refusing to take the back seats. The truth is it's mostly the U.S. Other countries seem to be ahead of us. We seem to want to hold on to myths more that others.

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Permalink Reply by Bryan B on January 28, 2011 at 5:28am

I too share your optimism and you make some great but I can't help but wonder if maybe we need a unified front. I'm not sure that is even possible though lol

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Permalink Reply by Serendipity Rose on January 28, 2011 at 11:18am

My problem with one unified front is which one? Not everyone that participates in this website carry the same label though our goals may be very similar. 

 

I do think that maybe there should be a few core organizations that should be supported like the Secular Coalitions and maybe freethought organizations such as FFRF. 

 

I personally support Unitarian Universalism because they are a group of freethinking humanists with no dogma or doctrine and I think that they are working just as hard as the above organizations towards the same goal. Their main motivation as an organization is to promote social justice and to provide education about various religions so that you can make educated choices. That education empowers young families whose children meet other children, teachers, etc. that try to convert them. UU also offers the community that many families with young children seek out in church life.

 

But that's just me. Another atheist might not want to support these organizations and have other organizations that they think deserve more support. 

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Permalink Reply by Ben on January 28, 2011 at 1:16pm

I think that not having a unified front shows the strength of Atheis,. We dont have a set of doctrines developed by a Crossdesser in Rome, or a book to tell us what we believe, how we should act, who we should exclude from our group, who we should condem, and so on. Many of us simply reject belief in an idea that has no proof to back it up.  I think that as more people become Atheist we will see more diversity. I guess you scould see it as a sign of growth. 

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Permalink Reply by Bryan B on January 28, 2011 at 5:40pm

Right now I am an atheist but not anti-theist but only because I don't think enough people are ready to let go of their religion and psychologically I'm not sure many even can.

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Permalink Reply by T A A on February 3, 2011 at 2:47am

Anti-theism (including anti-religion) used to be an integral part of atheism, that seems to be on the outs, as atheists are trying real hard to "look good too" in the eyes of the religious masses. I have never not been an anti-theist.

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Permalink Reply by T A A on February 3, 2011 at 4:39am

In faitheist, I see only faith-atheist, nothing more.

Jerry Coyne is definitely my least favourite author on these matters.

On A|N they're having a big debate on the definition of atheist. Some insist that it means ONLY no god, in their view excluding all other aspects such as anti-theist, anti-religious, anti-supernatural. To atheists such as myself atheism is nothing without these. But I'm an old-style atheist.

 

I have no doubt that new atheists will certainly achieve a much higher conversion-from-religion success than old style atheists, through increased boisterousness and defensive appeals like "we're nice too" but at the cost of dilution of the ideas. What I dislike about this is we may wipe god out people's psyches, but what's the point if we're to keep all the same social structures?

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Permalink Reply by T A A on February 3, 2011 at 7:30am

Yep, x2

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Permalink Reply by Bryan B on January 28, 2011 at 5:51pm

ya i really don't think a unified front is possible, unbelievers tend not to be joiners. But, personally, if  I were to back anything I think maybe the council for secular humanism or center for free inquiry. As for people I am more a fan of Hitchens these days.

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Permalink Reply by Adam Weber on January 28, 2011 at 7:52pm

Yes, I believe so too.

 

Sam Harris's book 'The end of faith' starts off saying that 'if we are to destroy ourselves, it will be because of religion.'

This statement, although absurd (was WW1, WW2, Vietnam war, Iraq etc religious wars?) shows how much new atheists 'hate' religion.

They allow their emotions to overtake them instead of logic and rational...

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