Be sure to vote, I am curious where most atheists stand on this issue.

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@Suzanne Olson-Hyde;

LOL that was funny, thanks I needed a chuckle. :D

Suzanne, I now dub you The Queen of Stereotypes. You just love dropping generalizations about Americans, about men, about gun owners, and about many other things I'd be able to name if I knew you a little better.

Don't threaten this guy.

Gun Control with a twist.

@Unseen - There you go again, clutching at straws - first saying whatever about black /americans, didn't enter my head, then stating that I blanket statement that all Americans are pratts, again, not true, in fact there are a lot of pratts here too.

I have Americans in my immediate family. Other than the fact they are Republic, which we have agreed to not talk about, they are terrific, and hate guns, so much they moved to Canada. so that is a plus. I also have Swedes and French in my family. There are people in my own family that I don't trust, but that statement doesn't cover my whole family. Get it.

Ha,ha, hardly a queen-of any description,and I am also fervently anti-monarchy, so that doesn't wash.

Your getting off track, but there ya go. I will try and follow.

I just don't want guns in Australia, and am eternally grateful that we don't have something like the 2nd Amendment to quibble over - what do you think this means ad nauseum.

I was asked why am I interested in this topic, and it is because the arguments are exactly the same as theists.

Where one is born - guns-religion
The area one grow up in - guns-religion
What parents teach - guns-religion
Stop research into - guns-religion
Ignore the shite done by - guns- religion.

The problem, once again, is that America is supposed to be the arbiter of what is right, as do theists - Americans killing Americans - not what I want here.

The Vatican or say Scientology = Gun lobby - It's all about the business, the amounts of money involved, and these lots will do anything to protect business - guns-religion

Of course one can find more violent, more corrupt, more guns, more killing in other countries. The perception outside of your fair country, is there seems to be a lot of unnecessary killing, protected by a constitution written when guns were muzzle loaded - stick to muzzle loaded and I wouldn't have a problem.

Laws written when things were different and don't pertain to today - guns-bible.

By the by - rifles are made for children - bought up in a culture of - guns-bible

We do need reasoned intelligent conversation. - and about time too, just keep your sense of humour, 'cause I am sure as eggs laughing at these discussions :)

The problem, once again, is that America is supposed to be the arbiter of what is right, as do theists - Americans killing Americans - not what I want here.

In what way? I know of no movement here in the US to arm Australians, much less JUDGE  or draw sweeping stereotypes about Australians, as you have a record of doing about the United States, because in this debate you (and other non-Americans) regularly talk about "America" and "Americans" as though we here are all of one mind. But go ahead and stereotype, now that I've got your vice out in the open for all to see. Let's see you TRY to talk about America without painting all of us with just one brush.

@Unseen - Just a bit of general info - I have a Swedish Uncle. He had a very powerful rifle, that could bring down an elephant, and sights on it powerful enough to spot a cricket. How clever, how talented, how difficult this must be for you to shoot anything. I made my usual fun of his manhood etc, and he bought a bow and arrow, no sights, to make him a real hunter, not just some bloke who likes killing.

The only generalization I would make, is that I would trust an Atheist before I would trust a theist, but I could change my mind on that one :)

So, once again with the stereotypes. All atheists and all theists apparently are of one mind.

Gun control may be about to become a moot point with the advent of 3D printing technology. Make your own gun at home!:

The United States' current gun control debate has centered on what type of guns people should legally own and what hoops people should jump through to procure them.

But what if people could ignore regulations altogether by producing guns in the comfort of their own homes? Thanks to the technological advances of 3D printing, that seemingly far-flung scenario may soon become reality.

A fascinating documentary produced by Motherboard tracks the evolution of the 3D printed gun movement, which was spearheaded by 25-year-old University of Texas law student Cody Wilson.

In the summer of 2012, Wilson formed Defense Distributed, an organization whose goal is to create a fully printable firearm. "Gun control for us is a fantasy," he says. "In a way that people say you're being unrealistic about printing a gun, I think it's more unrealistic, especially going forward, to think you could ever control this technology. (more here)

The CNC machines of today are capable making high quality parts quickly and the programing is transferable.

If you want to build your own unregistered AR 15 for your personal use you can, by getting what's know as an 80% lower and finishing it on a drill press in your garage.

The 3D printing still needs advancements in materials that can hold up to the stresses, some people say that the materials are just around the corner, time will tell.

I do like what Cody is doing.

The reason I would trust an Atheist before a theist, is that Atheists don't hide behind anything, theists hide behind the bible, or a cross.

That is my difference. And yep, I would trust an Atheist before a theist.

I know of no movement here in the US to arm Australians, much less JUDGE or draw sweeping stereotypes about Australians.

You make up things as you go, once again. Where did I say anything about the US wanting to arm Australians. I do not want Australians killing Australians, as it is in America - Americans killing Americans - and once again, glad we don't have 2nd Amendment clause to hide behind, so blokes can get off, in a primitive and neanderthal instinct to be bigger and better than the next bloke. It is all so primitive, and cowardly. That includes crims, but here, that is where the majority of deaths by homicide are, crims shooting crims.

In the cities and suburbia, It all has a ripple effect, because he does, I will have to, too. It is all in the mind frame. And it is not going to change.

It is all about how one is influenced, indoctrinated, brainwashed, and exactly the same way as theists, it starts in childhood.

Do I know that not all Americans are the same - unbelievable. That is why I feel so sorry for Americans who do not want their country awash with guns.

I do not want, as in America, Australian manufacturers of arms pushing an agenda that makes millions, the mind frame of fear, just in case, you just never know when someone is going to come through your door, and shoot you.

Once again, it is all about money. The NRA is a very strong group, who lobby and influence politicians, once again with fear. If you touch our gun laws in any way, we will make sure you lose the next election, by mounting huge ad campaigns that will once again instill fear, and remind them of their 'right' to bear arms.

Why was the Scientific Research into the effect of guns on communities stopped?

Why not be able to buy tazers instead of guns?

And once again, you will not answer any of my questions, just like a theist, cherry pick, circular argument, twist and put your own spin on a statement.

There are just as many neanderthals here, just as many knuckegrazers here, and I sure as eggs do not want inadequate males to have access to guns.

Once again, my Uncle, a Republican, left America, because of the guns there, in case some neanderthal came wandering his way, or his wife's way, or his daughters way, and shoot them. He was fearful, so he left.

Somebody bought up a discussion about cars - well cars are meant to go from A to B - guns are for one purpose - to kill. Bit of a difference, to me anyway.

"Every constitution, then, and every law, naturally expires at the end of nineteen years. If it be enforced longer, it is an act of force, and not of right."

- Thomas Jefferson

"Once again, it is all about money. The NRA is a very strong group, who lobby and influence politicians, once again with fear. If you touch our gun laws in any way, we will make sure you lose the next election, by mounting huge ad campaigns that will once again instill fear, and remind them of their 'right' to bear arms."

Bingo! The gun lobby, in the United States of America, is one of the most powerful organizations in the world. They have more money than cancer research. They wield their influence in the halls of government and scare the crap out of most politicians.

Despite the majority of voters in the United States wanting common sense laws, like background checks, the NRA, and the companies that back it, lobby's against it and politicians fall in line and vote which ever way the NRA tells them to.

Work with a guy, who hoard"s guns, and one day he shows up at work and hands me a piece of paper. It was a form letter, mailed out by the NRA, instructing him, as a member, who to vote for in the coming elections. He was pretty proud of himself too until I asked him how must it feel to give up his voice and his right to vote to an organization backed by billion dollar conglomerates?

The membership of the NRA is tiny compared to the number of Americans. Yet they speak for all Americans.


I'd love to see lobbying groups eliminated entirely, but (sigh) there's that pesky First Amendment thing. Lobbyists is how small groups make sure their voice is heard. Not voting for politicians one disagrees with on an issue is a right so basic I don't even need to try to defend it. When will the gun sanity people wake up and form an anti-NRA group that's willing to mobilize voters enough to scare the politicians into voting for them? They can argue "Look, we don't care how much money the gun manufacturers give you to vote their way, it won't change OUR votes! Give us meaningful controls on guns or someone else will be taking your seat in Congress next time around."




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