Be sure to vote, I am curious where most atheists stand on this issue.

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@Gregg - My dogs are very discerning, and can smell fear.

You are also most welcome to visit, to feel what it is like in a country, where people don't need to bury their guns, or hide their guns, or think they may have to defend themselves against the government. or have a gun in their bag, or in their car - a country where people don't argue over what does a comma really mean, or what does a capital letter really mean.

I do understand why America is generally so paranoid and violent - what with the amount of presidents who have been assassinated, how many disenfranchised people, and people who should be in mental institutes are running around with guns. It is also a country where, just about every generation, goes to war, invades countries, and loses, albeit dragging along stupid countries like Australia, who licks the boots of America, and follows to that war.

There are people who squeal like pigs when gun registration came into being - but, who cares. In the meantime, gangs are popping each other off, and that is a good thing.

It is a mind frame, just like religion.

No guns - no fear.

I do understand why America is generally so paranoid and violent

I'm just wondering how much time you've spent in the US. Typically, open-minded people don't characterize entire nations like that, especially if they've spent any time there. I do very much hope you didn't have a violent encounter here as an exchange student or something.

Where is the reasoning ability of people who say they "understand why America is generally so paranoid and violent" and then cite instances of violence as if these instances are their own causes?

Consider the words of various of America's founders in the 1787 Constitutional Convention, who created the "rule from above" America we have:

ELBRIDGE GERRY. The people are the dupes of pretended patriots, led daily into the most baneful opinions by false reports of designing men, which no one on the spot can refute. (May 31)

ROGER SHERMAN. The people should have as little to do as may be about the Government. They lack information and are constantly liable to be misled. (May 31)

ALEXANDER HAMILTON. The people seldom judge or determine right. Give therefore to the rich and well-born a distinct and permanent share in the government. (June 18)

JAMES MADISON. An increase of population will increase the proportion who labor under all the hardships of life and secretly sigh for a more equal distribution of its blessings. The government ought to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority. (June 26)

GOVERNEUR MORRIS. The second branch ought to be composed of men of great and established property--an aristocracy. (July 2)  & Men don't unite for liberty or life; they unite to protect their property. (July 5)

Think about rule from above as a cause of the violence in America. If those who rule were "our betters" we would have an aristocracy. They are not our betters; we have an oligarchy.

@Gregg - Viva American Companies - Go American workers and keeping them in jobs - never mind the fear engendered into the population to keep these businesses going, 'cause that has worked a treat, or the families who have to live with an innocent member of their family being shot dead, or maimed, and the trauma that will live with them the rest of their lives. No matter.

'We have to keep our guns, just in case a loony tune walks through my door and starts shooting, or just in case the government wants to try and kill us. Nobody is going to get my stash of guns. Never. That is my 'right'.

Paranoia reigns. Violence reigns. The gun lobby wins. Massacres will continue, the manufacturer of these guns will continue.

Anybody with a grudge can buy as many guns as they like, or just go home, and take one of his parents guns to even a perceived score.

"We will keep on making millions out of other peoples tragedy." Shameful.

It is too late for anything to change in America, so rest assured, you won't be in any danger of losing your guns.

You can continue to debate what the 2nd Amendment really means, and put your own spin on it, just like the bible.

There can never be a 'Gun Free Zone', Too late.

@ Stutz - And still, oh so true.

@Stutz - Don't have to visit to get a feel of the place - do you realize how much of your news goes around the world, how much is reported in the world's newspapers - how much the world knows about the population and the Presidencies, and the wars we have also been dragged into, because of our weak politicians willing to suck up to America. I would have thought we would have learned the lesson after the Vietnam war, but no, off we go again, sending our young'uns off to another unwinnable war or two.

But, I am always willing to admit it when I am wrong, so I will only ask about recent events:

The Columbine Massacre - didn't happen
The Blacksburg Virginia Tech Massacre - didn't happen
The Newtown Massacre - didn't happen
The Aurora Theatre Massascre - didn't happen - please tell me just these four things didn't happen, and I will gladly admit I am wrong about disenfranchised people with easy access to guns. And if they did happen, why did they happen.

I don't understand why you are getting so snippy, there is no real threat to take away your stash, not with the republicans in control, and your rampant tea party and their love of their guns. Not going to happen. I do not want the American influence on Australia to influence the gun lobby here. They are squealing like pigs because they have to register - poor blossoms. Easy access, or no control, means more people dead or maimed who are minding their own business. Pure logic.

I am willing to bet, the bloke on the bike is American - just my perception.

1)  You never DID respond to Gregg.

2)  The sort of ignorant thing I see from overseas is folks who somehow think we can buy "machine guns" off the shelf, etc. because they see it happen in the movies OR the news media report on the issue in a way as to cause confusion (for example, showing video clips of licensed full auto owners on "rock and roll" while discussing "assault weapons"--a phrase whose precise definition doesn't exist, etc. etc., to give the ignorant the impression that people are buying "machine guns" from Blamo Gun Store then shooting up their neighborhood)..


I believe she DID respond to Gregg here.

One need not be overseas to view Americans as rather paranoid and violent.  The general attitude about guns in the U.S. is rather paranoid and comes across as 'violent' to those of us who don't think driving around with a glock in the glove box is 'normal'.

Of course in Canada we have the option of just waiting for our enemies to freeze to death, so perhaps that's why we are less prone to shooting up our neighbourhoods.

a) From a statistical standpoint, the number of people killed in the U.S. by assault weapons is pretty close to 0%

b) There may be paranoid Americans who make the news in Canada, but I don't know any paranoid Americans. Some people may live in dangerous areas (drug dealers, gangs, etc.) and then owning a gun isn't paranoid at all. It's preparation.

And yet, why don't I own a gun or feel paranoid? And I'm not just citing myself as an exception. I'm sure the vast majority of Americans go about their daily lives without overwhelming fear and without carrying weapons on our person. 

We may have a lot of violent people, but you go ahead and talk as if every American can be described as paranoid and/or violent.

Well, a disproportionat percentage of crimes are committed by blacks or hispanics, why not go ahead and draw similar sort of "safe" conclusion using the same sort of logic, namely that American blacks and Hispanics are among the most violent people on Earth?

You've fallen into a bigoted way of reasoning.

Whoops, my bad.  I should have been clearer.

Here is the "Gregg's Question" I had in mind.

She answered PART of the post here. But if she ever addressed the points he made other than the ones about the Aborigines, I haven't seen it.  (Of course it would help if she'd put her replies under what she is replying to rather than scattering them at random through the thread.)

As for the Glock in the glove box, I don't actually have a Glock in my glove box (or any other firearm for that matter), but if I did, who would be harmed?  No one.  But the spate of laws being argued over right now could prevent me as a law-abiding citizen from putting a Glock in my glove box. 

[And furthermore, the G-17 comes with a 17 round magazine, that magazine is illegal to purchase here in Colorado as of July 1, so I suppose a G-17 owner would have to either break the law, try to buy a bunch in a panic before then, or try to find a "special" 15 round magazine.  Similar for people who own CZ-75s (16 round magazine--it's just barely evil), but hey.... a Beretta 92 only has a 15 round magazine so it's okay.  Browning Hi-Power, 13 rounds; it's OK too.  Man, if I were stupid enough to imagine these this mag restriction is going to have ANY effect other than to be a huge nuisance to the law abiding people who aren't the fucking problem, I would feel so much safer!]

But those laws would do nothing whatsoever to stop the individuals who are misusing firearms by "shooting up our neighbourhoods."  They are already lawbreakers.  To them these new gun laws are simply "Stop!  Or I'll yell 'stop!' again!"  They won't hesitate to break these laws and proposed laws, the only effect of which are to reduce the law abiding citizen's ability to defend himself.

I don't know who's getting snippy, but it's not me. If you want to make a list of violent news events that make international headlines and use them to draw judgmental conclusions about the mental state of the average American, or even that of the average legal gun owner, go ahead. I'm just saying I don't think it's particularly worthwhile, nor is it particularly a fair characterization of everyday life here for most of our 311 million people.


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