Be sure to vote, I am curious where most atheists stand on this issue.

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@Gallup - You may find this site interesting, I know Unseen and the other bloke won't read it :)

@Gallup - You may find this site interesting, I know Unseen and the other bloke won't read it :)

Then it's worth posting here. ;) 

@Galloping Mirror;

"Then it's worth posting here. ;) "

Why? Did you have difficulty clicking the link?  It's the button under your finger, do you suffer from carpal tunnel syndrome?

Should I now post some BIG pro-gun poster as a counter argument to this anti-gun poster?

Or will a link do?




The reason to ban cars

Just a suggestion of course.

All of the above posters have their own set of problems  The first one looks like it shows a lot of cherry picking.

Try this:

It's incomplete (as it admits) due to problems with data collection, but if you want to compare countries... 

Also check the links at the bottom.

I agree, I just pick the first one's I saw.

Both sides in this debate aren't having a reasoned conversation and I don't think they will, too much rhetoric and position going on.

The more time an individual studies this subject the less black and white it becomes.

Why? Did you have difficulty clicking the link?  It's the button under your finger, do you suffer from carpal tunnel syndrome?

Suzanne already explained why: "I know Unseen and the other bloke won't read it." So it wasn't a mysterious carpal of my wrist so much as your persistent failure to read (this time recent) history.

Should I now post some BIG pro-gun poster as a counter argument to this anti-gun poster?

That's how the Republicans and the NRA ended federal funding for firearm safety research. Science consistently found firearms to be a hazard to public health and safety. That's not science, said the NRA, that's anti-gun.

Note that the CDC has never been accused of being 'pro-vegetable' or 'anti-saturated fat' or 'anti-lawnmower' based on the results of other scientific research and then muzzled accordingly.

But the NRA can't muzzle science that has private funding. To that the NRA still must say science is not science, but "anti-gun", and then it must trot out the opposite of science: pro-gun.

Pro-gun posters? You might as well be posting links to creationist sites.

But really, Gregg. Why post them anyway? As you've belabored ad nauseam, the Second Amendment is the law and it's not going to change anytime soon. The Democrats are too weak and scared to touch the issue. The NRA is arguably the most powerful lobbying group in the country. Hell, they hold "cold dead hands" rallies while victims families are still wailing after mass shooting incidents. You've already got everything you want.

Stay Armed, Keep Bellyaching

@ The Galluping One;

I'm a member of the NRA, when anyone asks I tell them: "The hat comes with the membership, the crazy stuff is free." :D

I clicked on Suzanne's link and viewed that poster as well as Richard E. Roberson's link above.

Galluping ShinnyGlass links work, we don't need to shove large posters into each other faces on a forum.

We do need reasoned intelligent conversation.

Stay Armed, Stay Free. ;)

Galluping ShinnyGlass links work, we don't need to shove large posters into each other faces on a forum.

Images work too, Gregg. If posted images were somehow out of bounds there wouldn't be an 'embed image' button right beside the 'add link' button. Own it, Gregg. You're crying foul about nothing.

We do need reasoned intelligent conversation.

Splendid. What's more reasonable and intelligent than science? You, as an NRA member who supports this need, should contact the NRA leadership. Tell them to back a full restoration of federal funding for scientific research into firearm safety. Then the research resumes and we'll continue to see the truth of the matter. Not pro-gun. Not anti-gun. The truth of how firearms impact public health and safety at a population level in the United States.

I won't hold my breath while I wait. The NRA doesn't want anyone having that reasoned, intelligent, science-based conversation. An informed public is the last thing they want.

Stay Ignorant, Stay Armed

There is no question that guns are dangerous, as are knives and a number of other substances and devices. There is also no question that the introduction of such into the home or the community increases the number of injuries and deaths accordingly. These all have been the subject of previous study and statistical analysis both in the U.S. and internationally. It has also been shown that these items are often easily made, often with surprising quality and effectiveness by otherwise unskilled individuals and the knowledge to do so is ubiquitous making effective control of the distribution of such often difficult or impossible. 

In the case of guns in the U.S. is a particularly interesting example of this. In this nation the number of the guns per capita is currently the highest in the world (at least according to Wikipedia). Based on the currently available international data gun deaths in the U.S. are also among the highest in the world (though certainly not THE highest). What has not been presented so far is the ratio of gun deaths to the number of guns in a particular nation. What little statistical data I have personally seen reflects a rather tiny portion of the U.S. causing a disproportional number of gun deaths. Currently available data indicates the vast majority of U.S. citizens who are also gun owners are typically law abiding and not given to extreme violence. It is this group that is the source of social and legal push-back on gun control for the simple reason that the feel that they are being punished for the misdeeds of the very few. "Gun control" is not actually directed at the guns themselves but at the people who currently own, or may own in the future, firearms.It's a simplistic and emotional response to a complex social problem that ignores other civil rights of the persons affected. It violates a fundamental principle of American law that U.S. citizens are not the subjects of the state (yes, this principle has been, and often continues to be violated, but that does not create any justification for doing it). The currently presented gun control paradigm as a means of reducing the number of needless deaths needs to be re-examined and an alternative solution developed (absolute prevention of such is likely a fallacy). Such a solution would have to accept the presence of guns ownership by a large portion of the population. This may not be the desirable for some people but it is a legal and social reality at the moment.  

I just heard in KY, some 5 year old got a rifle as a gift and shot his 2 year old sister dead. What fool would give a real rifle to a 5 year old?

Here's the Link 

Sad and tragic.

I'm trying to remember when I first shot a gun...I was probably 6 or 7 years old...I got my first rifle while I was still in grade school.  It was a single shot 22, similar to the one this 5 year old boy had. I didn't shoot my sister with it, so I guess my parents must have taught me gun safety.

The parents apparently said they didn't know the gun was loaded. 

Well, gee, I wonder who loaded it if one of them didn't? I'm suppose it's possible the 5 year old did, but I doubt it. 

Who gives a 5 year old a real rifle for their birthday. Well, I saw a view of the kid's home. It was a mobile home, which brings out every "trailer trash" stereotype in my mind. The dad and mom probably entertain themselves by shooting beer cans off each other's heads. Or...maybe off their kids' heads. Hmm...maybe the boy didn't do it at all!



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