If the Bible was divinely inspired, then why would it have so many really obvious contradictions?

Theological doctrines:

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31
19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13
20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21
22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
Rom 1:20
God's attributes cannot be discovered
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7

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"If every word you are saying is true and there is no God, why not continue in the beautiful lie of religion rather than taking the blue pill and having the ugly truth?"

I feel sorry for anybody would rather accept a lie that's easy rather than know a truth that's hard.

BTW. It's the RED pill. All of us atheists have taken it. But if you'd rather live in the Matrix, that's your prerogative.
And it tastes like candy. Do it...
I hope that this was indeed for all of us as you indicated in one of the last questions. I gave answers as concisely as I could.

How do we tell the truth from the lies?
Through the testing of observable evidence.

Is there absolute truth or is truth merely subjective to our own experiences?
There is absolute truth. Our experiences are representative of our experiences and not absolute truth. Absolute truth as a concept is larger than we will know. The anecdotal evidence from our lives only scratches the surface.

If God were to exist, how would we know it? If it mattered, it would reveal itself. If it were the Christian God, I would still not follow because the morality of following a creature that uses blood to apologize and threats to compel behavior doesn’t appeal to my sense of right and wrong.

If he doesn't exist, how do we prove it? You can’t prove a negative. The problem for gods and prophets is that they can’t resist making specific claims. Those are testable and verifiable.

If there is a God, which one is the right one? This would only be important if they revealed themselves.

Is there more than one God? Same as the last answer.

If there is no God, and no Satan, does that mean there is no Good and no Evil? Yes. There are acts that are immoral and unjust but no powers dictating behavior.

How does one tell right from wrong? What do your actions to do affect others guides us. Social evolution would require that we learn to support each other as a society. If our gathering in societies was not beneficial, our species would grow to be hermits like Tigers. Since it is beneficial, the collective must benefit from our behavior. If our behavior hurts the collective, we deem it immoral. Empathy teaches us right from wrong and this is consistent with the “classical” teaching of the Jesus’ lessons. “He who is without sin cast the first stone.” “Treat others as you would be treated.” These are lessons in empathy. We only have divisions on questions of where life begins and dictates that most churches don’t even follow such as being anti-homosexual. Few religions follow the letter of the law because society would reject them. Think of the Westboro Baptist Church.

Is there such a thing as right and wrong? Yes. If your actions harm others, it is wrong to continue.

Where do morals come from? Empathy and Social living. You’ll see this in young children and even in animal collectives.

Is there a such thing as morals? Same as right and wrong.

How did we get here?
Abiogenesis has been verified in labs. It’s the creation of life through chemical compounds until you have RNA and eventually a lipid layer. This is our best current understanding.

Where are we going?
Around the sun? Away from the singularity (commonly called the Big Bang)?

What happens when we die?
What happened before you were alive? I believe it’s the same. We return to the earth and eventually to the universe from which we were sourced.

Is there any purpose in life?
To better the lives of our children and further our genes. Just living life is cool too. Tomorrow I’ll go hiking with the dog enjoying nature. Tonight I enjoyed a movie with my bride. The return question is, Is your entire life meant to prepare for death? Is that living? Then Pascal’s Wager becomes critically important to not wasting your life. Let’s say you are correct. When you go to heaven to you finally have free will without consequences? Can God cast you to Hell for desiring things he would consider immoral? At what point do you get to make choices that harm no one else without fear of reprisal?

How do we find happiness?
When I’m unhappy, I seek the cause and change my circumstance. Economically the recession has caught me. I’m considering how to change my circumstances rather than hoping or asking someone else to change those circumstances for me.

Are you (all of you) firmly convicted in your beliefs, and why?
I’m firmly convicted that the evidence that I have for a god is invalid. The claims of the religions that I am aware of do not workout. Age of earth, Flood, or simply never having seen anything in life that I would call mystical.

How did you come to the decision to ditch religion (any religion)?
As I child in a Baptist church I was told of the impressive wow stories like Jonah, the flood, and by the time we got to the Resurrection I was calling shenanigans and needed evidence for people coming back to life. I was quite young. Elementary school. Since I have never had a reason to look back. As you can see, I discuss it a lot, and still the Holy Spirit hasn’t caught me.

If every word you are saying is true and there is no God, why not continue in the beautiful lie of religion rather than taking the blue pill and having the ugly truth?
Is this a Matrix Reference? Life is beautiful for me without religion. It’s meaningful and warm to know that what I feel comes from me and not granted to me by others and their happiness with my behavior. I would not waste the gift of this electro-chemical existence. It’s a marvel that we have such consciousness. I only hope that I can do my part in the evolutionary chain to better the lives of those that follow after me.

Do you spend your life searching for knowledge?
Absolutely. I always have a informative book (Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet by Bart Ehrman right now) and even when I lift weights I have a video playing that is either a lecture or simply educational. Watch other videos done by CDK007, the guy who did the Abiogenesis video that I posted. Fascinating.

How can we know anything? Ooof! That’s a deeply philosophical question that would require an outdoor fire and many adult beverages to solve.
Ok, so maybe I shouldn't have asked all my questions at once. It's defiantly overwhelming. That being said, the questions were for everyone Gaytor, and I appreciate your prompt response. Usually when I ask questions, I get blank looks not though provoking answers.
I have a strong suspicion that we could talk about this stuff for years, so I don't know what to address first. I'm not a scientist like some of you, but I do want to be fully convicted in my beliefs. I guess I'll just start at the top, but if there is something specific you want to address in more depth, feel free to pick and choose.
1. I don't know how to test observable evidence. This sounds like a cop-out, but I'm serious. Do you read specific scientific journals or case studies? I know how to test the bible, and truly feel it's an all or nothing book. Either the bible is divinely inspired truth or it's not, period. If you can prove totally, and beyond doubt that there are contradictions in the bible, then I'm converted, simple, right?
2. I'm a firm believer in absolute truth. I have little tolerance for people that say that whatever feels right to you, is truth in your paradigm. I've always said that truth is like a laser pointer, it's that precise.
3. I believe that the only true God is the judeo-christian God of heaven. That's obvious, I'm sure. God will never reveal himself to you in a burning bush, or a voice from heaven when your on the road, anyone who says otherwise wants your money. I'd love to talk more about this one though. The fact that you wouldn't believe in a God that you knew existed bothers me though. Is that true? If there is no good and no evil does that not mean that there is no good behavior, nor evil behavior? Therefore, I still don't get why you have morals. Is it just fear of disobeying man made laws and the social order of society?
4. I don't get the whole Abiogenesis thing. If you want to explain it to me, that's fine, otherwise I'm leaving that one at the door. Maybe I'm just not intelligent enough to understand?
5. I'm glad you enjoy life, but what is your purpose for existing. Every experience in life is not good, and bad things happen to good people too. How do you get though the tough times, the financial struggles, family pressures, and even the work week without the hope that something better is coming?
6. When you go to heaven to you finally have free will without consequences? Can God cast you to Hell for desiring things he would consider immoral? At what point do you get to make choices that harm no one else without fear of reprisal? This is too much to answer in one post, so I'll post it as a separate question and we can talk about it, unless you were being rhetorical.
-to be continued-
I'll get back to this. It's long, which is fine. I'd just like to go enjoy the daylight. Must... see... sun! I want to say this as food for thought though, from my perspective. If you find happiness and fulfillment as a Christian, I'm not looking to talk you out of it. I'm happy to share my positions and thoughts, but there are certainly positions of Christianity that hold looser standards than a entirely inerrant Bible. The Catholic Church accepts evolution and Genesis as poetry. Nahum 1:3 "His way is in the whirlwind and the storm, and clouds are the dust of his feet." Does god create the tornadoes in the Bible Belt only because he's angry at them? Are clouds dust or are they made of H2O? Just keep the idea open that maybe my positions mean there is something new to read which is fun too.
"I still don't get why you have morals."

I'm going to respond to this quotation with another one.

"If people are good only because they fear punishment, and hope for reward, then we are a sorry lot indeed." - Albert Einstein

That being said, I don't think we need religion to behave properly... at least not all of us. I think that morality should mean the welfare of living beings with an emphasis on human ones, of course. I help people not because I'm afraid of a god, but because I'm afraid of the mirror. I do things that make me not be ashamed of myself.

What things would you do that conflicted with the biblical morals? I surely hope a lot of them, because there are some horrific things in that book. Look:

" 2 If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant,

3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded;
7 The hands of the witnesses shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterward the hands of all the people. So thou shalt put the evil away from among you."
Deuteronomy, Chapter 17

I guess that those Muslim extremists don't seem so extreme afterwards, do they? I mean, the all loving Judeo-Christian god says you should kill those who believe in another invisible man than you do.
If you believe in Ganesha, what ya doin at TA?
Is that anything like the big top?
"God will never reveal himself to you in a burning bush, or a voice from heaven when your on the road, anyone who says otherwise wants your money."

Are you prepared to say this to Moses and Paul? (just kidding)

1".... Either the bible is divinely inspired truth or it's not, period. If you can prove totally, and beyond doubt that there are contradictions in the bible, then I'm converted, simple, right?"

Gen 32:30 states, "...for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." However, John 1:18 states, "No man hath seen God at any time..." Both statements cannot be true. Either there is an error of fact, or an error of translation. In either case, there is an error. And if there is an error, then infallibility of the Bible (in this case the King James Version) is falsified. A typical defense used here is to look up the meaning of the original Hebrew / Greek, read that one of the words can have multiple meanings, and then pick the meaning that seems to break the contradiction. For example, the Christian might argue that "seen" or "face" means one thing in the first scripture, and something completely different in the second. The logical flaw in this approach is that it amounts to saying that the translator should have chosen to use a different word in one of the two scriptures in order to avoid the resulting logical contradiction that now appears in English—that is, the translator made an error. If no translation error occurred, then an error of fact exists in at least one of the two scriptures. Appeals to "context" are irrelevant in cases like this where simple declarative statements are involved such as "no one has seen God" and "I have seen God." Simply put, no "context" makes a contradiction or a false statement, like 2 = 3, true.

If one is prepared to allow for the possibility of translator or transcriber errors, then the claim of Biblical inerrancy is completely undermined since no originals exist to serve as a benchmark against which to identify the errors. Left only with our error-prone copies of the originals, the claim of infallibility becomes completely vacuous. Pandora's Box would truly be open: You could have the Bible say whatever you want it to say by simply claiming that words to the contrary are the result of copying or translation/interpretation errors, and nothing could prove you wrong.


2 Kings 8:26 says "Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..." 2 Chronicles 22:2 says "Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign..."
2 Samuel 6:23 says "Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death" 2 Samuel 21:8 says "But the king took...the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul"
2 Samuel 8:3-4 says "David smote also Hadadezer...and took from him...seven hundred horsemen..." 1 Chronicles 18:3-4 says "David smote Hadarezer...and took from him...seven thousand horsemen..."
1 Kings 4:26 says "And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots..." 2 Chronicles 9:25 says "And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots..."
2 Kings 25:8 says "And in the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month...Nebuzaradan...came...unto Jerusalem" Jeremiah 52:12 says "...in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month...came Nebuzaradan...into Jerusalem"
1 Samuel 31:4-6 says "...Saul took a sword and fell upon it. And when his armourbearer saw that Saul was dead and...died with him. So Saul died..." 2 Samuel 21:12 says "...the Philistines had slain Saul in Gilboa."
Gen 2:17 says "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day thou eastest thereof thou shalt surely die [note: it doesn't say 'spiritual' death] Gen 5:5 says "And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died."
Matt 1:16 says, "And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus..." Luke 3:23 says "And Jesus...the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli"
James 1:13 says "..for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." Gen 22:1 says "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham..."
Gen 6:20 says "Of fowls after their kind and of cattle [etc.]...two of every sort shall come unto thee..." Gen 7:2,3 says "Of every clean beast thou shall take to thee by sevens...Of fowls also of the air by sevens..."
Luke23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost." John 19:30 "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
Gen 32:30 states "...for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." John 1:18 states, "No man hath seen God at any time..."

Factual Errors:

1 Kings 7:23 "He made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a line of thirty cubits did compass it round about." Circumference = Pi() x Diameter, which means the line would have to have been over 31 cubits. In order for this to be rounding, it would have had to overstate the amount to ensure that the line did "compass it round about."
Lev 11:20-21: "All fowls that creep, going upon all four, shall be an abomination unto you." Fowl do not go upon all four.
Lev 11:6: "And the hare, because he cheweth the cud..." Hare do not chew the cud.
Deut 14:7: " "...as the camel, and the hare, and the coney: for they chew the cud, but divide not the hoof." For the hare this is wrong on both counts: Hare don’t chew the cud and they do divide the "hoof."
Jonah 1:17 says, "...Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights" Matt 12:40 says "...Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly..." whales and fish are not related
Matt 13:31-32: " "the kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed which…is the least of all seeds, but when it is grown is the greatest among herbs and becometh a tree." There are 2 significant errors here: first, there are many smaller seeds, like the orchid seed; and second, mustard plants don't grow into trees.
Matt 4:8: " Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them." Unless the world is flat, altitude simply will not help you see all the kingdoms of the earth.
I like that you are here. You are pleasant and curious and non-hostile. Endearing qualities. :o)

You say you are not a scientist "like some of us." You do not need to be a scientist, but it is ever so important to educate oneself scientifically. Many Christians (and I am not saying this is you) believe scientists are know-it-alls out to smarty-pants the world with their great knowledge, and that they refuse to see out of their own box. In truth, scientists just want to discover things. They live for out of the box. If a discovery goes against something they previously believed or thought to be true, a scientist often finds that very exciting rather than disheartening. Scientists want to know facts. Things that, as Gaytor said, can be tested by observable evidence. Objective, not subjective, evidence. If I tested out the theory and you tested out the theory and Mr. Jones down the street tested out the theory, we would all come to the exact same conclusion. It's very neat and tidy.

The human genome has been mapped. Particles beyond our rather primitive (but still amazing!) vision are being studied to see how they react. Glass is a liquid. Matter is not solid. Science helps us understand how the universe around us works. How we as biological beings work. Add sociology, psychology, some ethics, and you are one well-rounded individual! Science is truly eye-opening and unendingly interesting. I believe that the things that are unexplained are only unexplained as of yet.

Garrett Lisi, my new hero, is a self-proclaimed beach bum who is mathematically formulating how the four forces that govern the universe-- gravity, strong force, weak force, and electro-magnetism (ie, how the universe was created and continues to function bundled into one neat equation). He states that it would be going backwards for a complex being to create such a simple theory.

Beyond that, it gets circular. If god created the universe, who/what created god? I would want to know that, if a god was discovered to exist. Was god created Big Bang style? I would not be satisfied with the usual religious answers, which are usually not to question, just to accept, and shush and be a humble quiet woman.

You believe with your heart, and good for you. You feel your god and you feel you are right. Atheists started thinking. It wasn't enough to feel. We had to logically work it out, and once we got started on that, it didn't make sense that there is a creator or creators.

You also believe in your Bible. The Bible was the nail in my religious coffin. I read it and I shuddered. It is full of contradictions, hypocrisy, erronious knowledge, atrocity, anger, bigotry, etc. It made no realistic sense to me AT ALL. It made me unbelievably sad that people read that and could still worship a Christian (or Jewish) god. The Bible was written by men. Translations have been made. Things have been ommitted, added, removed, etc. at man's will. Not god's. If one were to believe in a god, that would be one of the last places I would look for it. It is like a religious written version of the game of Telephone, where you whisper a phrase such as "I hate hot dogs" into the person sitting next to you's ear, and they whisper it to the next person, and so on, until the twelfth person down the line gets to say the phrase out loud. It has become, "Nancy Smith puts mud in her underpants." Hardly the original and intended message.

You say we will not see god in a burning bush. Why? Moses did. Why can't such things happen now? Where is god these days, anyway?

I am open to the fact that perhaps a god or god may be out there. I would be more inclined to believe that they are just a different or alien type of being rather than the creator of any universe(s), as it scientifically makes more sense to me that the universe we live in is basically random. I don't know why people think (and again, not necessarily you) that it's weirder to believe that the universe was created in a way conducive to phsyics-- especially considering we are all bound by the laws of physics-- than by an all-powerful man-being living up in the sky. I would think weird would go on the other foot, thank you.

Anyway, welcome.
7. “Treat others as you would be treated.” These are lessons in empathy. We only have divisions on questions of where life begins and dictates that most churches don’t even follow such as being anti-homosexual. You knew this was coming but here's the point at which I throw scriptures from a book that you don't believe in at you...
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Yes, to be a Christian (as apposed to a "believer in God") means turning from evil and doing good, but I don't believe that anyone has it all together. We all sin, so to speak and no one is good enough for God. People will probably make fun of me for saying this, but one of my best friends is an Atheist, and another is Gay. In both cases we have a fundamental difference of philosophy and theology but in my experience, life is very boring when everyone agrees with me... I prefer interesting people with various opinions.
Sin is a mental construct, a devious trap that is dressed up to look like common evil to ensnare the guilt-ridden before the "cure" is surprisingly offered.

To this day I still have NO idea what the Holy Spirit is supposed to be or what it even looks like.

To be Christian means to follow the golden rule. But does that mean non-Christians are incapable? I've read to many websites that suggest that.


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