Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Bob Sircy on March 6, 2011 at 10:44am

I have limited time, and was unable to read it all.  I liked what I saw!  I once participated in AA, and maybe should again (beer being my main issue), but I could never connect there because of the heavy reliance on the christian God.  I have looked over the years for support groups with a secular approach.  They hardly exist.  There are some, but very few.  Keep up the good work!

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by JD Stockman on March 10, 2011 at 5:09pm

I can understand how the word "clean" implies that you were once "dirty"... but for that reason I actually think the word is more effective and accurate. When I'm on drugs, I am polluting my system and thus, 'dirty' seems very appropriate. I feel like to some point, addicts and addiction are given the "there, there... it's okay" treatment and in my humble opinion, that is one of the most damaging responses I was ever given. My friends decided it was okay that I did drugs, and people around me would tell me I should do whatever I want. With that, there really wasn't anything that would hold me back. Part of why the original incarnation of the 12 step program doesn't work so often (also in my opinion) is the constant lack of accountability in people using and deflecting of that use to being the power and control of someone other than themselves. The framework of the 12 steps is just fine, its the principles that are broken. That is what led me to rewrite the program to better manage personal responsibility and not leave people the answer "you will get there when you get there" or my personal favorite: "fake it 'til you make it".  Now, the only one you have the option to lie to is yourself and that option is no longer viable the moment you are actually honest with yourself and say "I am an addict." Once you tell yourself that, it is no longer a matter of 'do I have a problem' and more 'am I going to solve it or continue to fail'. 

Harsh words... but in reality, it is ourselves to blame and no one else.

 

On a side note, I spent a stretch of time locked up. This ideal I have is a translation of my conflict I have with prisoners getting so many luxuries and having them pawned off as "rights". It's the reason the prison system in its current incarnation is broken and doesn't work. I feel the same is true for treating and understanding addiction. I screwed up. I took the drug. I became a wreck. It is my responsibility to straighten up or suffer the consequences. 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Pikato Kits on March 21, 2011 at 11:16pm

Thanks a lot for bringing up this topic for discussion.I'm also an addict and i'd problem searching for help in the internet and everywhere else regarding this particular topic.The people(recovering addicts) i know out here who are sober,clean for a long time  always tells me to go to meetings or rehab ( i've gone to rehab twice already) if i want to stay clean,but it pisses me off because whenever i go to a meeting,they talk to me about higher power and when i tell them that am an atheist,they just tells me to start believing in a higher power for my sobriety for my own sake,as if i can do that,like just changing my cloths or hairstyle or the frames of my glasses (hahaha....).i know some of  them genuinely wants to help me out but none of them really gets me,they can't see it from my point of view.Well,just knowing that someone else think,felt or feels like what i did and do cliche' it might sounds but really i don't feel so lonely anymore.Again,Thank you very much.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by JD Stockman on March 22, 2011 at 12:33pm

In a lot of cases, the 12 steps in their original format do help people and for them, there is nothing wrong with them. If it works for them, it is because of two things: either they are Christians or have a flexible understanding of what "God" is.
I suspect, however, that the reason it doesn't work is for a lot of people is because they are Atheists (obviously) or they are lying to themselves or their concept of "God" and are, in truth; non-believers.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by JD Stockman on March 22, 2011 at 12:35pm

wierd... my comment was edited down by a few paragraphs

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by JD Stockman on March 22, 2011 at 12:36pm

thank you for the compliment by the way

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Aim on March 31, 2011 at 6:17pm

Thanks, JD.

I'm sober almost 28 years. I haven't been to a 12 step meeting in 9 years. When we know better, we do better, eh?

I don't recommend the program anymore, at all. The fear that is influenced into unsuspecting, often vulnerable minds is not fair, honest or necessary. Besides the God push, it is often said that if you don't continue to go to meetings, help the new comer, be of service, have a sponsor, and read the big book, that you'll likely go back to drinking/using. It is a commonly held belief in the program, that if you don't have a God, that you have no spiritual defense against the first drink, as if your own ability to choose otherwise isn't enough.

The last time I went to a meeting, I was asked to share from the podium. I let them know they were far more powerful than they had been lead to believe. I talked about the power of intent, and focus and conscious choice. After I sat down, a man with 10 years more time than me, told that same room of people that if they wanted to learn about any of what I spoke of, that they could take a class at UCLA and end up in a bar afterward. Powerlessness is defended in the meetings, as is the idea of "disease."

There is something to be said for thought patterns. I'm no neurologist, but it seems to me that any extended amount of time that I focus on the thought to drink or use drugs, I begin to feel as if taking the action is more and more appealing. It begins in my head, every time. If I allow myself to become emotionally attached to the thought to get high, chances are, given enough time, I'll get high. Apparently, every time those thoughts have run through my head, I redirected my thinking to thoughts that had nothing to do with using.  

I thought you might be interested to know about SMART recovery as well. A 4 step program based on "scientific knowledge."

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Bill on May 18, 2011 at 9:22pm

i like your rendition of the 12 steps. Really helpful for someone.

I was around the original 12 stepsfor 25 yrs.

Funny thing tho, I stopped believing in God ( I was a devoted fan) and THEN I got sober, after over twenty five years of trying to quit(with God). 

My life is just as or more screwed than it ever was but I won't drink.

I don't have any answers. No one's got my back if I'm right or wrong about what I think. I'm really messed up.

I'm here looking for an ear to bend and found your page. tag , your it.

Bill.

 

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• Next ›
• Page